Chaos inside NYPD with Lt. John Macara

A police officer can be cleared for a shooting in a deadly-force fight, but still face prison for trying to control a suspect without firing a gun. That’s the core contradiction we dig into with retired NYPD Lieutenant John Macara and host of NYPD Unfiltered. 

We walk through the NYPD’s staffing and morale spiral: fewer applicants, faster exits, and a “10 is the new 20” mindset that turns a once-proud career into a short stop before the next job. We also talk about how constant body camera review, social media outrage, and leadership-driven risk avoidance change decision-making in real time, and why that pressure cooker is shaping the next wave of retention and officer wellness problems.

Then we get specific about NYC Local Law 10181, often branded as a “chokehold” or “diaphragm” law, and why it creates confusion between a true chokehold and a lateral vascular neck restraint (LVNR). John breaks down the Omar Habib case, why the law can be enforced arbitrarily, and how criminalizing practical control tactics can unintentionally increase the likelihood of deadly force incidents. We also discuss who is speaking up, who is staying silent, and why the precedent matters far beyond New York.

If you care about police reform that actually improves public safety, use-of-force policy that matches reality, and leadership that protects both communities and officers, you’ll want to hear this one. 

Subscribe, share this with a friend, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway: what should the law allow officers to do in a fight for their lives?

Our show sponsor, Telegenix, offers a 37% discount on all wellness resources for first responders and their spouses. 

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Transcript

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A Cop Jailed While Suspects Walk

John Macara 0:00

The leadership's not going to speak up because the political establishment wants cops to be arrested when they want them to be arrested for political gain. And the unions are in bed with them too. And they're not saying a word. Right now we have a cop. Omar is sitting in Rikers Island where New York City elected politicians are looking to close it. They're looking to lower the headcount, the overall headcount of Rikers Island. They're letting violent repeat offenders walk around New York City. I'm talking about people that have stabbed people, raped people, shot people, robbed people. Omar Habib didn't even injure a violent suspect who committed a crime and would not and was resisting arrest. And yet Omar Habib's sitting in jail while the perpetrators walking free, he's gonna be a millionaire now. New York City taxpayers are gonna pay him out. And Omar Habib's facing seven years in jail in a city that says they don't believe incarceration.

Meet John Macara Unfiltered

Announcement 0:53

Welcome to Courageous Leadership with Travis Yates, where leaders find the insights, advice, and encouragement they need to lead courageously.

Travis Yates 1:03

Welcome back to the show. I'm so honored you decided to spend a few minutes with us here today. And today we have an important guest, a special guest. You've probably heard of him, you've seen him, you listened to his podcast. Today we have John McCary on the show. He's a retired lieutenant with the New York City Police Department. He's the founder and host of New York's finest retired and unfiltered podcast. He's speaking a lot of truths coming out of New York City, a lot of things you have to hear John talk about because no one else will. And today we're going to talk about a myriad of issues, and I'm honored to have him. John, how are you doing, sir?

John Macara 1:39

Doing well, sir. I appreciate you having me on here. You know, I appreciate uh getting uh talk about issues that are really brushed, uh brushed away by mainstream media and unfortunately police unions and police leadership, especially here in uh New York City. So it's uh it's a shame.

Travis Yates 1:54

Yeah, I think most people don't realize that is when you hear about police unions or police organizations, there's almost this people think, oh, they're they support law enforcement. Well, actually, it's quite the opposite, oftentimes. I mean, they support the political leadership or the politic, I mean, behind law enforcement. Think about unions get their power from politicians. Politicians want so so they're more in bed with politicians, are they not in most cities than they are with the actual line officers?

John Macara 2:23

Yeah, in New York City, they're aligned with whoever the majority party in control is. And in New York City, we have one party Democrat rule, uh radical Democratic rule, I would say, anti-police democratic rule, anti-public safety. And the unions have been moving in lockstep with them for the last 14 years. And it's it's disgraceful to watch. And it's the same with our leadership in the NYPD. They're politically appointed. Uh, they're not they're not constitutionally concerned at all about anything they're doing. Their only concern is that they align with whoever the mayor is and they will be at the beck and call of the mayor. And so when people see that, they see police unions or they see police leadership speaking, they think

Unions And Leadership Pick Politics

John Macara 3:05

that they have the best interest and they're speaking for the rank and file officers. When in fact, it is absolutely not that. They are speaking at the beck and call of the elected leadership.

Travis Yates 3:15

And that's why I love you, John. If you're not following John, and we'll give his all his social media away by the end of the show, you got to listen to him because it's not anything crazy, it's not anything radical. He's just speaking the truth that for some reason people don't want to talk about and kind of close their ears to. And and you know, NYPD is so unique. Obviously, everybody knows about the tradition of it. Uh, I've been there a handful of times. I mean, incredible men and women that do that job. How does it get so disconnected, John, when you have these the men and women that come up the ranks and and then it just turns really bad really quick. Uh, any thoughts on that?

John Macara 3:53

Well, I mean, when you when you look at the NYPD and you look at, in my opinion, what what the downfall or the decline of the NYPD, it started under the Bill de Blasio administration, right? Uh, like I said, he brings in his friends, his politically appointed leadership. And it's insane to think that it was Bill Bratton who is credited as like the main implementer of broken windows theory, which transformed New York City from a city of crime into the safest big city in America. But he comes in on the second term under Bill de Blasio and he completely moves away from broken windows. And then it was just one police commissioner after the next. And basically what they did is they removed the proactive element of policing. They moved us towards, I don't know what the goal is or what the mission of the New York City Police Department is anymore. I know that it's not to play basketball games, I know it's not to have hot dog eating contests, I know it's not to have dance teams, uh, I know it's not to be on social media acting fools. It's to protect public safety, but I see them doing all of the above, except uh partaking in public safety. And that's at the behest of the leadership. So there's so much wrong that goes there. It's start, there's there's a lot that happened with legislation, too. And I'm sure we'll get into that today. There's some serious legislation that has handcuffed rank and file uh officers as well as rank and file supervisors from actually being effective on the ground. But the policy and the training implemented from that politically appointed leadership in the police department, in my opinion, has done more damage than any type of legislation could ever do because they're co-opting the lies of the anti-police establishment.

Travis Yates 5:37

Yeah, I don't think it's an opinion. I think it's in the numbers. So what's the truth of recruiting and retention there at NYPD? I mean, what do you, John, you have an ear to the ground because the politicians, not just NYPD, but around the country are sort of scamming the public. They're trying to make the public think that it's not a crisis, the staffing is fine, because they're backfilling these holes, and it's it's quite frankly destroying the morale of cops when they're having to work so many hours and they're not going to last in this career. But what's the truth when it comes to recruiting and retention there?

John Macara 6:08

The truth is that in the 90s, if you talk to someone how far the NYPD list to establish to get people on, there would be about 60,000 names on that list. Now, are all 60,000 qualified? No. But you have 60,000 people applying to the New York City Police Department. Today, they are begging people to apply to the New York City Police Department. When they had 60,000 names, they were they scrutinized, right? You had to go through a psychological background, you had to go through a criminal check, you had to be physically fit. And I'm not talking you have to be an Olympic athlete here. I'm talking about like basic level fitness. Like you're not gonna, you're not gonna step off the sidewalk and blow your Achilles tendon out. You could bend down, you could climb stairs, you could jog

The Shift Away From Proactive Policing

John Macara 6:50

a mile and a half. Like, I'm not talking like these great athletic feats. You could crime, you could climb a fence, you could uh do a dummy drag, all of these moves that you're gonna do. And what you see today is you saw police commissioner Tisch under Eric Adams tell you that they're at crisis levels when it comes to hiring. And now, and and now that she's working for Mea Mondani, she's telling you that, oh no, we have no issue recruiting and there's not a retention problem when everyone knows that's not true. And and the other thing, like the biggest lie, in my opinion, is that there's 35,000 NYPD officers. There is no way that they're near 35,000 officers. And if they are, then that means there's serious management problems in the NYPD. Because if you look at the boroughs of New York City, all five boroughs, and if I showed you the numbers today, and I won't do that, but I know what they are. But if I showed you them today, you would be like, you would you would sit there and say, you're lying, something should be done about this. This is something this is this is not okay for the cops on the street. This is not okay for the people in New York City who are calling 911 and expecting help. You know, and and unfortunately, that's that's the reality of it, is there's there's no cops. When they hit 20, they're out. Um, they hit their number, they're out. I'm glad you brought that up.

Travis Yates 8:02

That's the biggest number and the big red flag for me is every NYPD cop I know, they're 20 and out. I mean, and I'm sure there's benefits past 20, like most agencies, right? Huge benefits. They are 20 and out. Huge benefits. Where you've talked to you know, because I mean, I was in Phoenix, Arizona, and there was a Phoenix cop. He says, Yeah, I'm 20 and out NYPD, and I came here.

John Macara 8:23

Well, the saying in the NYPD now is 10 is the new 20. Yeah. And and so, because 10 years, they'll secure their health benefits and then they go work in different municipalities, whether it's Arizona, Florida, Tennessee, or upstate New York, they leave the NYPD. And it's like this, it's like this lie. And all we've seen is them dumbed down standards. They've elite, they've dumbed down the psychological exams. So now you have people on with serious mental health issues. They they allowed more criminality in there, they lowered the age, they lowered the amount of college needed, and now they're attempting to raise the age at the same time. They're telling you, no, there's no problems here. It's like, so well, if there's no problems, why are you doing all this? Because these problems didn't exist in the 90s and early 2000s, and you didn't do any of that. So why now?

Travis Yates 9:07

Well, John, I'm sure you're aware of this, but let me tell you about the reckoning that's coming. When you and I began law enforcement, we would stay no matter what, no matter how they treated us. I mean, it was like a badge of honor. Oh, yeah, my department's terrible, but I'm staying to the to I'm staying to all this or staying all that. These kids today, right now, the data says that if you start law enforcement today, in five years, 63% pop out. So if they're, and that's that's that's nationwide stats. So if they're a department like NYPD that's dealing with the problems you're dealing with, the majority of those kids in that academy graduate and will not be there at year three, four, and five. So you think it's bad today, you wait until then. And let me, I just want to say this because it's so uh insane that a department like NYPD, with with the tradition they have and the respect they have nationally, internationally, would have this problem. It almost seems like by saying defund police was not popular, it was politically suicide. So let's let's stop saying defund the police and now do things to the police that will make sure we defund and and disband police without us being the ones doing it. And we can just go, it's not our fault, it's a crisis, but it's actually accomplishing what they want because what they're doing will just is destroying NYPD because when you talk about recruiting, retention, morale, people afraid to do the job, no proactivity. It's gonna, and then ultimately they can say, see, the current modern policing doesn't actually work. We have a different idea. They have to almost destroy law enforcement to build it up and what they want. Oh, yeah, that is called Marxism, but then again, that's a whole nother show show. What's your thoughts on that, John?

John Macara 10:45

Well, I mean, look who's really leading police leadership across the country. It's leaders without badges. I mean, you know, I say it often. I say the real faces behind law enforcement. You don't really, you rarely see them. You might not know them. They have a conference right now that they're getting

Recruiting Collapse And 20 And Out

John Macara 11:00

ready to do, leaders without badges conference. And it's liberal white women who were never police, never wore, never wore a police uniform, and they're really running the policy in departments. And that policy is driven on diversity, equity, inclusion, uh, foundations and beliefs, and which is, in my opinion, rooted in Marxism. It's there, they push the, they're pushing the 30 for 30 agenda where they want 30% of women to be in law enforcement by 2030. And they're hiring and and they're hiring and promoting based upon the color of someone's skin or their gender or their sexual preference. And what they did is that is there is a huge drain in talent and experience, and they're forcing people's hands out of the profession. They're forcing competence out of the profession in order to again their political and in my opinion, a legal, which goes against equal opportunity law agenda. And and so I think you I think it's a huge problem, and I don't think anyone's looking at it. I mean, the the the the amount of a talent and experience the NYPD has lost in in 10 in the last 10 years, you will not be able to gain in the next 20. Um, so I I don't I don't know what the future holds, but I mean you're you're you're like what I what I continuously say is the NYPD is going from being a career to just a job you sit in until you get a better option. And and that's what's happening. And I agree with you that we were treated much rougher than this generation as far as our supervisors, the way they talked to us, the way the assignments we were given. Uh we couldn't complain about it. You got a car with no air condition, or you stood in a football. Feelings didn't matter at all. But I will say, I don't believe we were under as much pressure and as much scrutiny as these young cops. Yeah, you know, like and and I think there's a there's another mental, uh, mental and physical health crisis that these young people are gonna have that we didn't even experience with the amount of scrutiny with the body cameras and all the cameras. Basically, every job they go to is an ESPN replay where everybody's breaking down every second of the day. And I know if they did that with me throughout my career, people would probably say I'm a horrible cop. And I I and I would beg to differ because you could pick little instances or words and be like, see what he did there. That's against violation, that's against policy. And we're all human, you know, we're all human. And so people make mistakes, but you know, you're allowed to have private conversations in the car, you're allowed to vent, you're allowed to decompress. But I think today these kids aren't. And I think it's a big problem.

Travis Yates 13:29

Well, I agree. There's a reckoning coming if it's not already here, because you cannot make a job impossible with that level of stress and that level of scrutiny. And number one, not derail everybody from wanting to do that job, but number two, destroying the people that are doing the job. And I think the the flavor of the month or mental wellness that we all talk about today for our generation is nothing of what's gonna happen. I mean, um I I I wrote a sitcom that nobody wants to talk about what nobody wants to watch it, but it was it was taking a 1970s street cop and they get in a time machine and come to 2026, and we see how long they last in law enforcement. It'd be about three seconds, right? Uh, because it is incredible. And listen, I brought you on here for a specific issue, and if I keep talking, we're not gonna get to it. We have to get to this because it goes much deeper, John, than just toxic environment, bad leadership, bad policy, bad training. I mean, they're trying to throw cops in prison doing their job and protecting their lives. And so I there's this there's a story out there now, and you've talked a lot about it. I do appreciate it. But let me give some background on this. So, George Floyd did not die from a chokehove. George Floyd did not die from a lateral vascular neck restraint. In fact, the chief of police from Minneapolis at the time, at the trial, testified that the knee that you see in the video was on the top of his shoulder. Different angles, people will say neck, but this whole neck thing got thrown in there. And let's just say the knee was on the neck. Okay, none of that's a chokehode, none of that's a carotid artery code, LV and R is another name for it. None of that has anything to do with the neck. But because everybody bought the lie that he died of a chokehold, and we can go back to NYPD, the Eric Garner case too. I don't know as much, I don't know about as much of that case at R, but from watching the video, it doesn't seem like a chokehode to me, but that's what 100% was not a chokehold. Yeah, everybody's in the tree. We go, oh, it must be a choke code. So none of these are real choke codes. Choke codes are deadly force, the front of your throat. Uh, you can do serious injury or death by by damage in the front of the throat, but carotid artery holds or LV and Rs or what you watch every weekend on UFC, it's what's going on in jiu-jitsu gyms right now. That we know we call them sleeper holds or whatever. That has nothing to do with the choke, totally different. And so law enforcement traditionally, traditionally, before everybody lost their mind in 2020 and 2021, including NYPD and everywhere else, because even my department in Oklahoma banned it too, because the professional organizations all said you should ban it. Choco traditionally were deadly force, always were. You can use it under deadly force situations. But LVNR, carotid artery holds, the things that every jiu-jitsu gym is doing right now as we speak, perfectly safe, never been serious injuries. They've been studying for 50 years out of Kansas City where they train it. It's never was deadly force. It was always intermediate force. In fact, it's lower force, it was lower force than than fist and batons because it's such a there's literally no risk of injury. Most a lot of departments trained in that and gave their officers that because if you're fighting somebody out of control, that's kind of the only way you can kind of get them under control and keep from having to use deadly force. But what happened in 2020 is they brought all of that under choke codes, and they either banned it, made it crimes, this and that. So is this and I'm gonna let you I'll let you talk about this, but I have the crime written out. This is this is a state law, correct, John?

John Macara 16:42

This is a local city law, so it's a local law. 10181. It's known as either the chokehold bill or the

Body Cam Scrutiny And Wellness Fallout

John Macara 16:50

diaphragm law. Yeah, here's what it says.

Travis Yates 16:53

Here's what it says, and they did this post-2020, correct? This was this was weeks after Floyd.

John Macara 17:00

This was right on the heels, weeks after Floyd.

Travis Yates 17:03

But nobody knew any, nobody knew the truth, nobody knew the autopsy, nobody knew how he actually died because the autopsy says his neck had no injuries whatsoever. So they passed this long before that because they don't care about the truth.

John Macara 17:14

And just one thing I want to add in on that. The the the co-founder of Black Lives Matter New York takes credit. He was on my social media taking credit for having this bill passed, for having this bill passed into law. So he's not a public uh safety expert, he's not anything, but yet they took a radical anti-cop Marxist organization uh leader, they took his word over public safety professionals, over everyone, and they just ramm this bill through on the heels of Floyd.

Travis Yates 17:45

Well, it's it's really insane when you read it. So here's what it says it says no person shall restrain an individual in a manner that restricts the flow of air or blood by compressing the windpipe or the carotid arteries on each side of the neck, or sitting, kneeling, or standing on the chest or back in a manner that compresses the diaphragm in the course of effecting an arrest. So it's only affects law enforcement. Apparently, civilians can use this because it's in the course of affecting an arrest at the end. Here is the part that's crazy. Okay, the it says because it's it goes far beyond Choco. They call it the Choco law, but it goes far beyond Choco. Yes, compression and windpipe is choked, but carotid arteries on each side of the neck, right? Restricting the flow of blood. That is not a choke. And so they've they're lying to the entire city. And the problem is they just threw a cop in jail, John. So let's talk about Omar. I'm just gonna tell you, I'm gonna give the floor to you and talk about what happened here. And they use this to throw a cop in jail that was fighting for his life. Go ahead.

John Macara 18:47

Yeah, so police officer Omar Habib, 19 years in the NYPD, uh, rough precinct in the Bronx, uh, hundreds of arrests to his name. Um, few minor complaints, but nothing that nothing that would stand out as him being a problem or anything like that. Omar gets called to a 911 call. He responds to a 911 call of a disorderly male breaking up a catering hall, fighting inside of the establishment with other guests, staff, and then going into that establishment's bathroom and punching out the mirrors and destroying property in there. When 911's called, there's a delay in the response from the NYPD because there's so few cops there. So EMS is the first on scene. EMS is able to get him into the ambulance, the individual, and he's going crazy in the ambulance. He's bleeding everywhere. EMS now calls for help. It becomes a priority job. Omar responds. When he gets there, there's a male who's twice Omar's size inside of the uh ambulance. Omar's about 5'10, 150 pounds with his uniform on. This male's about 6'5, 250 pounds. Uh, the the people inside of the hall did not want to press charges, but the manager of the catering hall wanted to press charges for the damage done to the catering hall and inside the bathroom. So the decision's made that that this individual will be placed under arrest. Omar walks into the ambulance, attempts to uh put the man the individual in handcuffs, the male violently resists while bleeding, and he falls backwards onto Omar Habib. He pins Omar Habib onto the gurney, at which time Omar's like this with a man twice his size on him. This is when the NYPD internal affairs, as well as Bronx DA's office, say that Omar put this individual in a chokehold.

Travis Yates 20:36

Keep in mind Omar's diaphragm is being compressed, but that doesn't matter.

John Macara 20:40

That doesn't matter, right? And he has there, and and you know, when you read that law, there is no extinction circumstances, there is nothing that could ever happen if

The Diaphragm Law And LVNR Confusion

John Macara 20:50

you do XYZ, you violated the law. Now, the police officers on scene were threatened as being an accessory to this crime, which is a misdemeanor, but they but because of this crime, that's a misdemeanor.

Travis Yates 21:04

That's the still the end of it. The suspect was eventually handcuffed, arrested, no injuries, zero injuries.

John Macara 21:11

He claims that he passed out for a second. There is no evidence of that fact.

Travis Yates 21:16

By the way, even if he did, that's an L V and R that's not harmful whatsoever. And it couldn't be a complex never to do drunk.

John Macara 21:24

He's bleeding all over the place, he's acting all right, it could have had a panic attack, could have been a million things, right? But he's completely uninjured. There's absolutely nothing wrong with him. Omar Habib gets arrested for the misdemeanor and ultimately gets convicted of felony strangulation on an individual while the male's on top of him for 22 seconds. And and it's no one in law enforcement's talking about this.

Travis Yates 21:49

Let me let me let me let me let me ask you this, John. Let me throw you a hypothetical. This man, twice my size, is on top of me. I'm immobile. Okay. I'm losing my breath. I can't breathe because my diaphragm is being compressed by a man twice my height. By the way, that's that diaphragm compression is much worse than on your from the back, a front compression that's much worse, right? Um, I can't use an L V and R, an intermediate force, low level of force that is anyone with the brain would know this. I can't use it because I'm now committing a crime. My only option is to now shoot the man. That would be my only option. Because I'm I'm now worried that because if you're on top of me, people can't listen to this, don't see me, but imagine someone on top of you how easy they can reach back and grab your weapon. And then you can't get out, you can't affect an arrest. You could sit there and you're not gonna be able to breathe. And if you pass out, you now present a weapon to the suspect who's already displayed violence. It's very easy from reasonableness standpoint to get to the point where he was in a deadly force situation. Unless he can use intermediate force to mitigate that, but it's against the law. So if he would have shot him, could you have justified this and he'd be cleared in policy and not in jail?

John Macara 23:06

Yep, absolutely. Because you could articulate that you were in fear for serious physical physical injury or death. You thought that he could potentially kill you, you would go out of breath and he'd take your gun. So you could justify using your firearm on it.

Travis Yates 23:18

It's um it's unbelievable.

John Macara 23:21

And I don't even I hate to even say choke.

Travis Yates 23:23

Hold on, hold up though. I want to I want to put a time out because there are people listening to this that don't like you, or don't like me, or don't like cops, and they're never gonna side for whatever we're saying. Just use your brain, use your brain. You watch UFC every weekend, you see L V and Rs. Jiu-Jitsu gyms in your town right now at lunchtime are choking people, not choking, they're using L V and Rs and restricting blood flow. It's all perfectly safe. Cops aren't running to jujitsu gyms every day to pick up dead bodies. We all know that. Use your brain now, put yourself in Omar spot, someone's twice your size, on top of you with leverage, you're losing

Omar Habib Case Step By Step

Travis Yates 24:00

breath, you're losing consciousness. And you try to convince John and I that's not reasonableness to use deadly force. Now, they will, but I just wanted to I wanted to set the stage there of how utter ridiculous and cowardly this is.

John Macara 24:15

Go ahead. And and just, you know, the the thing is that like most of the what's deemed a chokehold in New York City is actually not even a chokehold. Well, that's nice and watching headlock. That is absolutely nice and headlocked it's neck control, but the minute they see anything around the head or the neck or like this, it's a chokehold to all of uh, you know, the the all of the critics out there. They're like, oh, it's a chokehold, he did a chokehold, it's a chokehold. And I really have a hard time believing that Omar was even able to actually lock in a chokehold on this individual just based upon the way it was. And so, you know, the the training in the NYPD now is to to avoid uh not violating this diaphragm law or 10181 is the training starts with a suspect face down on the ground with their hands behind their back, and then they proceed to tell the officers what they cannot do, but they never tell the officers what they can do, and everything they tell the officers to do violates everything that I was trained to do. Use leverage, use leverage on his diaphragm, on his back to gain to gain control. And the other thing is, you know, and we all know, encounters do not start with someone laying face down on their chest with their hands behind their back. They start standing up. And I was always trained to take people down from the head, especially if they're bigger than you. If they're bigger than you, you're gonna take down from the head, which is what happened during Eric Gardner, right? Like he took the individual down from his head, brought him to the ground, got him cuffed, rolled him to his side to promote free breathing, called an ambulance. That is exactly to the T how I was trained. He did not choke him, although you have police executives that will say that, and that is a blatant lie. We could watch that video over and over again. And and and the thing is, like, we're just we're giving in to the anti-police crowd, our leadership and our unions, because we're being completely silent or we're co-opting what they're saying. Oh, yeah, that's a chokehold, and we could never use chokeholds. Like, like a chokehold is taboo or a headlock is taboo now. Why? I could shoot someone and pump three in their chest, but I can't do a basic control move of wrestling or jujitsu. Like, how does that make sense? I mean, I'd rather you, if it was my child or it was me, I'd rather you do head or neck control than shoot me three times in my chest. I'm like, I don't understand the logic here.

Travis Yates 26:35

Yeah, the number of martial arts that wouldn't exist if we could never touch someone's neck is really unbelievable. And I think it goes, I mean, honestly, the fact that law enforcement leadership, not only in NYPD or across the country, have been able to have not been able to explain this to people the way I just explained it. Hey, a choke is not LV and R. They're two totally different things. A choke code can do significant damage to someone and hurt or kill them. That's why it's deadly force. But we shouldn't ban anything. If you have to, if you you have the ability or reasonableness to shoot somebody, you should let them touch their neck as well. I mean, it's so crazy uh to see this. Um and then some departments go, oh, well, we still use LV and R, but it's only for deadly force. No, it's not deadly force. The the definition of deadly force is anything that causes a significant risk of of severe risk of injury or death. LVNR never does that. I want someone to send you and I the article of where a dude died in a jiu-jitsu gym from L V and R. It didn't happen. May have dropped dead of a heart attack, may have got over exerted, may have dehydrated, but the LVNR does not do it. That's insanity. Okay. And and you can go to YouTube and watch UFC fights and everything else, and you can see a people are perfectly fine after it. And so the fact that we've to something that's so common to Americans that the our leadership has not been able to explain this. And we just go, like you said, John, yep, it's all chocolate, all banned, it all goes away. But it doesn't go away, John. Just a few years ago, you guys had the record high officer assaults in history in NYPD just following their de-escalation training. So the actual training they were given your officers, I believe 22 and 23, they all went through ICAT training. The following year was an all-time high in use of force, an all-time high in officer injury. So it's actually causing problems by what they're doing.

John Macara 28:24

And the same remains true today. Officer assaults are still on the rise. Officer assaults and officer involved shootings are up on the rise too. And here's the other issue: whenever there is a violent, a violent male who is resisting arrest, a violent male or female, a

When A Ban Leads To More Shootings

John Macara 28:40

violent suspect resisting arrest. I have yet to see a video where NYPD officers have not violated this law, but it's used arbitrarily when they want to.

Travis Yates 28:57

Yeah, you don't win many fights if you can't.

John Macara 28:59

You just yeah, you you what you watch is you watch eight cops now. It used to take two cops, now it takes eight. You watch eight cops play patty cake with a violently resisting individual, and they're flopping around, and nobody can get control of anything. Well, you risk that that the deforce the force levels go up higher, or they use deadly force. But what ultimately happens in a lot of the times is they wind up just reverting back to violating the diaphragm law because there's no way to train around it and there's no way not to do it. It's it's it's an it's almost an impossibility. Unless the suspect is compliant, you are violating that diaphragm law. And that's what no one wants to acknowledge. The laws being used completely arbitrarily for political purposes when they deem it to be, uh when they deem it to be to be so.

Travis Yates 29:49

Well, we we don't have time to go into it, but people are just like they lied about, they've lied about this neck thing, the whole diaphragm thing has been a lie too. A coroner in Canada, uh, basically uh it was a bogus study, and then everybody grabbed the study. I mean, I don't we don't have time to go into it, but so much of this stuff makes no sense because I've from the beginning of time we've been throwing people on the ground, putting their knee in their back, getting them handcuffed, end of story, right? It's it was all fine until a few years ago, and all of a sudden it became really dangerous to do, which is really crazy. The fact is, people show me where people are dying from this stuff that aren't ex that don't have uh deadly levels of drugs in their system. Show me that. You know, they really can't show you that. So they're sort of ignoring it. Kind of like after Floyd died, they wanted to ignore the fact that he had five X the levels of fentanyl that would kill a horse. They wanted to ignore all of that. And so much of this is being done, and it's being it's being a lie, it's they're lying to the public, but we know the lie, John, but law enforcement's silent. What's going on there?

John Macara 30:50

Because they want to stay connected to the political establishment. The leadership's not going to speak up because the political establishment wants cops to be arrested when they want them to be arrested for political gain. And the unions are in bed with them too, and they're not saying a word. Right now we have a cop. Omar is sitting in Rikers Island where New York City elected politicians are looking to close it. They're looking to lower the headcount or the overall headcount of Rikers Island. They're letting violent repeat offenders walk around New York City. I'm talking about people that have stabbed people, raped people, shot people, robbed people. Omar Habib didn't even injure a violent suspect who committed a crime and would not and was resisting arrest. And yet Omar Habib's sitting in jail while the perpetrators walking free, he's gonna be a millionaire now. New York City taxpayers are gonna pay him out. And Omar Habib's facing seven years in jail in a city that says they don't believe incarceration, they're decarceral, they believe in evidence-based public safety strategies to stop people from recommending.

Travis Yates 31:51

This law is definitely evidence. This law is a good idea.

John Macara 31:53

They have no problem, yeah, exactly. But it's all a lie, they have no evidence of any of it. It's all of bogus studies and and and hit jobs in the media that make absolutely no sense. So, but you but this kid is facing seven years in jail, his unions are nowhere. This this should be every NYPD union should be jumping up and down. I believe every New York union should be jumping up and down as well.

Travis Yates 32:12

Is there anybody on his side? Is anybody got his back?

John Macara 32:14

The National Police Association has stepped in. They wrote a letter to Harmie Dillon at the uh U.S.

Training That Says Dont Without Do

John Macara 32:20

Justice Department's civil rights division, and they're talking about the constitutional concerns of his trial and and of the law itself. The law itself, where because the law itself, like we said, there's no there's no uh justification there. Officers receive no training on when uh something becomes illegal. When does it go from a hold to being a legal chokehold? When does it go from a restraint to a chokehold? Officers have no training on this. So, how does anyone know what the chokehold is? And if, in a matter of fact, he actually even deployed one.

Travis Yates 32:52

Well, that's what I'm about to say. I don't want to give too much away, but it seems to me from an expertise level, which hopefully there are gonna be plenty of people that can do this, is you have to prove that he restricted the flow of air at his carotid artery, or you have to prove that he actually compresses the wimpi. How are you gonna prove that? How are you gonna prove that? Is there sort of medical evidence of this?

John Macara 33:18

You see what I'm saying? You you get you get a judge that is does not like the police, and basically she says ding ding ding. In his case, he didn't go with a with the bench trial, he went with a jury trial, but there were grave things that happened during that trial, and they convicted him. Uh, the judge said in open court, you're lucky you went with the jury and not me. Uh the the jurors passed a note around saying I stand with George Floyd. The judge let the judge let it go. The judge let the whole thing go, even though it clearly shows.

Travis Yates 33:47

Let me repeat this. George Floyd did not die from anything related to his neck. You don't have to believe John or not. Go read the autopsy.

John Macara 33:55

And and the other thing is the the NYPD's internal affairs sergeant that testified against him, his whole testimony was stricken from the record. I don't know what happened there. I don't know if there was a perjury there. I'm just trying to figure that out. It wasn't at the trial. Um, but he they struck his whole testimony from the record. So you have the investigative body for the NYPD testified on record. They have nothing. They brought a NYPD training there, a lieutenant to testify against Officer Habib. He's got a lot of issues that no one looked at. And so, you know, I while the the National Police Association isn't weighing in on the trial itself, they're looking at the constitutional concerns of the law and how this applies. And how is there no scenario where self-defense applies for a police officer? There's no way we could ever use a chokehold that makes absolutely no sense.

Travis Yates 34:47

Well, it really makes no sense when you consider he could have shot him and he's fine. Do we really want a law that's going to create more deadly force incidents, which is what this is? And that's probably why you've seen force increase in New York, because why I'm not going to hands-on with anybody with this law under place. Yeah. I mean, your your unions, and I know you have a ton of them. I mean, they should be making a public statement that, okay, now in the in replace of LV and Rs, your only option is to use deadly force. They ought to be making that announcement.

John Macara 35:22

No, what they're telling, what they're telling their guys is avoid the head when affecting arrest. Which is impossible. It's like avoiding food for past. I mean, you can't do it. And oh, and avoid the diaphragm too. You know, you can't use leverage on the you can't put a knee in the back, can't do anything, not even for a second. You know, any of these

Trial Red Flags And Union Silence

John Macara 35:40

avoid police work.

Travis Yates 35:41

Have any of these powers ever been in a fight? What is what's going on here?

John Macara 35:46

Again, they're they're sitting up in their offices with their air conditioned offices and their heated office with their uh their phone that's paid for, their vehicle that's paid for, they have an expense account, all their meals are paid for. They're hanging out like they think they're the rat pack, the second coming of Frank Sinatra and and and Dean Martin and Sammy Davis Jr. And they forgot that they're cops, they haven't been cops in over 20 years, never bore body cameras, never dealt with the level of scrutiny that these officers are dealing with. And they really don't care because if they did, I wouldn't, I wouldn't even need to be talking about this, other than I would be resharing that stuff, you know, and it's it's infuriating. It's completely infuriating. And what are they gonna say? Don't listen to Travis Yates or don't listen to John, don't listen to those guys. It's not gonna happen to you because in 2020, when they passed this law, we were told by the NYPD chief of department the DAs will never use it. And now you have a cop in jail.

Travis Yates 36:39

I mean, it honestly, well, we we talk about cowardice here, but this goes beyond cowardice. We're we're in the evil lane at this point. I mean, it is evil to sit there and be silent and to let an officer set in jail for something you know he had to use to try to survive without using deadly force. I mean, that's well we're we're beyond the cowardice at this point. And I don't know how people sleep at night. And I and I have to think there are people that are ignoring that moral code that have got to be miserable. And I hope very they continue to be miserable, and we need people to speak out. I mean, it's unbelievable to me. I'm glad the NPA did, but it takes the NPA with all the organizations that were in New York City. It takes the NPA. I mean, there's there's too many cowards to list in this show, John.

John Macara 37:28

The the the PBA, the Patrolman's Benevolence Association, the largest police union, municipal police union in the world, they have about a hundred million dollars in the bank. Like, you can't fund this kid's appeal. You weren't there from the get-go, you weren't there doing opposition research on all the stuff that they're saying. Again, this isn't just a case of Omar Habib. This is this is the people versus the NYPD. This, the precedent that was set here, there's dozens of cops in line for the next. I said, I and I said when it passed, I said, look, they're gonna use it. I don't care what the chief of department is telling us. They are 100% gonna use it. And when they use it, it's gonna open up the floodgates. And now here we are. So it's not just about Omar, it's about police work as a whole. Where are we going as a whole? Are we moving towards this, this, the uh, where we're gonna just try to use technology and replace technology with uh the human element and replace the human element uh with tasers or or nets or whatever else because there's no way to effectively do this job. And I think, you know, unfortunately, the rank and file really doesn't have a voice. But any officer out there would agree with everything that me and you are saying right here is like I I'm being put in life and death situations and I have my hands tied behind my back.

Travis Yates 38:41

I can't imagine what it would be like to go to work every day in that environment knowing, knowing that you can't do what it takes to survive. And that's what we're talking about. Because once again, people can say that's harsh. Like there are there will be more suspects shot in New York City because of this law. Because if you take this very and I and look, show codes have always been deadly force, I want to reiterate that, but you should be permitted to use it in a deadly force situation. But LV and R, nobody with a straight phrase could tell me that needs to be a felony to use. I mean, there's kids, there's there's rednecks in the back. You are doing that for fun right now. I mean, it's just ridiculous, right? And everybody with their brain knows

Why This Precedent Threatens Every Cop

Travis Yates 39:20

it. So the fact that they added that section in there, I can almost, if they wanted to get off on choke codes, because you know they they believe the lie of George Floyd and they're they're they're crazy. Okay, write a choke code law. They didn't write a chokehode law, John. They wrote a law that if you touch someone's neck, it's a felony, including L V and R, which is insanity.

John Macara 39:38

But but again, I go back to I can I can deploy deadly physical force when I'm in fear for serious physical injury or death, but I can't use a basic head or neck control or even a chokehold. It makes no sense. I could stick my finger in your eyeball and pull it back and go like this and get any. I could do anything I need to do to survive, but if I do that chokehold during that violent encounter where I'm in fear of death, I can I can never use that. I'm going to jail. I'm losing my job and I'm going to jail. It makes zero sense. And like I said, it's it's what it's doing is taking self-defense, like the self-defense doctrine away from New York City.

Travis Yates 40:16

Yeah, they didn't route that to citizens. So citizens have more self-defense. Yeah, absolutely.

John Macara 40:21

You'll see jujitsu guys get celebrated in the media every day in New York. They're stopping these maniacs all over the place, and they're celebrated. They have the guy in a chokehold or or or in a you know, a neck compression or a headlock, and everyone will celebrate it. And I consistently point out if that's an NYPD cop, he's losing his career and he's going to jail, and you're not going to call him a hero.

Travis Yates 40:42

Well, John, I I thank you for talking about it. It seems it seems unbelievable. It seems unreal, but it's even more unreal that you're one of the few that's even discussing it. And that is that's tragic. And uh, you know, I every cop needs to know that you could be the next Omar. And if you're not an NYPD, you're not immune. I could list off dozens of cops that were that are sitting in prison for for literally following policy in their training. So this sort of reverates across the country, and then you wonder why the profession is where it's at. So John, I appreciate your voice on this. And uh, I can't thank you enough. So uh tell tell everybody how they can reach out to you, how they can find you.

John Macara 41:21

Yeah, and just uh just before I do that, I just want to say if but that thanks for those. If

How To Help Omar And Final Thoughts

John Macara 41:25

anybody wants to help out, Omar is literally sitting in jail. He lost everything, he's got no money, no benefits, no anything, no more pay coming in. Uh his sister's trying to fundraise for his appeal, freeomar.com. If you could check that out, you could find me. I use my name for everything, John D. McCari, I'm most active on Instagram, Twitter, or YouTube. I think we just passed uh 350,000 so far. Subscribers, that's at the finest unfiltered. We've had the great Dr. Yates on before. Um, you know, and uh if you guys could go over, check us out there, like, subscribe, you know, weigh in on the conversation, whether you agree with us or not. We're just uh, you know, we're just talking about the issues and what's occurring, you know.

Travis Yates 42:03

Yeah, it's a phenomenal show. It's a daily watch for me. Thanks for what you do, John. If you've been watching, if you've been listening, thank you for doing that. And just remember, lead on and stay courageous.

Announcement 42:14

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