Courageous Leadership with Travis Yates
Courageous Leadership with Dr. Travis Yates Podcast examines what it means to be a Courageous Police Leader. Join us weekly as the concepts of Courageous Leadership are detailed along with interviews with influencers that are committed to leading with courage. You can find out more about Courageous Leadership with Travis Yates at: www.TravisYates.org
Courageous Leadership with Travis Yates
Legacy of Principled Leadership with Sheriff Scott Walton
Authentic leadership in law enforcement is about integrity and the commitment to one's word, as Sheriff Scott Walton illustrates through his experiences. By fostering a supportive environment, Walton emphasizes the significance of standing up for officers in difficult times while exposing the damaging effects of weak leadership.
• Importance of keeping one’s word in leadership
• The unique atmosphere at Rogers County Sheriff's Office
• Supportive leadership creates a positive work environment
• The perils of cowardly decision-making in law enforcement
• Insightful discussion surrounding Betty Shelby's case
• The need for courageous leadership amidst crisis
• How to cultivate a department that attracts dedicated personnel
• Emphasizing fair treatment over equal treatment
• Introduction to the Stand First Foundation and its mission
If you are interested in supporting the Stand First Foundation, please visit stand1st.org to learn more.
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their word. I grew up hearing your words, all you got. You're only as good as your word. You know, if your word's good you can borrow money on your word. You know and you know as a kid growing up you hear, you know word, word, word and it doesn't mean to you a lot, to you maybe when you're, when you're young. But looking back, I mean today, I mean I see somebody, I meet somebody new and all I wonder is his word good? I mean, is he good for his word?
Speaker 2:Welcome to Courageous Leadership with Travis Yates, where leaders find the insights, advice and encouragement they need to lead courageously.
Travis Yates:Welcome back to the show. I'm so honored you decided to spend a few minutes with us here today, and there's no way to start the new year than with this guest. You've heard me talk about him. I've mentioned him a lot. He's in my book. He's a true inspiration to all of law enforcement. I'm at his agency as we speak, recording this live for you to listen at a later time. Thank you for doing that. I'm here with Sheriff Scott Walton, rogers County Sheriff's Office 44 years of law enforcement experience, a number of years of municipal agency before this. He's been the sheriff here for a long time and, if I have my way, he's going to be here for a lot longer because he's truly an inspiration. Sheriff Scott Walton, how are you?
Scott Walton:doing Travis, I'm good and I'm blessed and I'm glad to talk about whatever we're going to talk about, because we've had some good conversations over the years and they just get better and the need for the subject matter you're preaching here is growing every day.
Travis Yates:Well, I mean, scott, I've always been thankful to you because early on, during Courageous Leadership and our seminars, you brought us into your agency. I think we trained just about everybody and this had been a long time ago and you committed to that when you started here as sheriff and you fulfilled that promise. But I've watched you from afar, sometimes up close, of what you're doing here, and let me tell you why I wanted to do this interview so much. You don't know this by close of what you're doing here. And let me tell you why I wanted to do this interview so much. You don't know that. By the way, people don't know this. We don't prep for these. Scott's got no idea what we're going to talk about. We're going to free flow this, but it's going to be very interesting.
Travis Yates:And, scott, I've had multiple of your employees reach out to me because people will follow me or follow the content, and they reach out. I get a lot of emails talking about how bad things are in some departments, but what I get from your agency is so unique, it's like a unicorn, right? It doesn't happen very often. I've got employees that tell me that the time you spend with them, the time you invest with them. I had one employee a few weeks ago say that he threw an idea by you and you just said I like it, get it done and it's just so unique compared to what most law enforcement unfortunately is. And I unique compared to what most law enforcement unfortunately is. And I guess I would want to start this, this interview, with why are you different? Why, why do we?
Scott Walton:see so many cowards out there in the profession, but you seem to be so different, you know? Uh, a quick answer on that and, and I think the longer I thought about it, I'd still come back, uh, to a full circle. And you know, you and I both talked about our dads and, uh, your father was, you know, an administrator and, I believe, retired as a captain in Fort Smith, arkansas Police Department right.
Scott Walton:Yes, sir, my dad ran a steel shop, you know, and his blue collar all the way. He was a, you know, world War II and Korean War veteran and Korean War veteran. And you know, whether you know it or not, growing up, you know you might go through a phase of trying to prove your dad wrong or whatever, but you always want to be like him. And you know, in this small town of Claremore that I grew up in now it's a little big town or whatever, but you know, I still see men that used to work for my dad and they said you know, clint was the best boss they ever had. And you know, I guess I wanted somebody to say that about me someday, you know. But you don't. I mean you don't want it. You know, you don't want that as stolen valor or anything. You want it earned. You know. And I think of the fact that I mean I look back now, but you know, looking back, I mean it was just the thing that that fades away. Now. I don't care what industry you were in. Uh, it's, you know, it's people being their word.
Scott Walton:I grew up hearing your words. All you got. You're only as good as your word, you know. Uh, if your word's good, you can borrow money on your word. You know and, uh, you know. As a kid growing up you hear, you know word, word, word and and um. It doesn't mean to you a lot, to you maybe, when you're young. But looking back, I mean today, I mean I see somebody, I meet somebody new, and all I wonder is his word good. I mean, is he good for his word?
Scott Walton:You definitely want your commitments to stay strong, commitments to stay strong and and um man, in this industry now that we're talking about it, I mean our law enforcement profession. Uh, you know, we've seen the best and the worst examples of it and sometimes, you know, I'm I'm fortunate to, to be able to work and and be responsible for an agency that's a real manageable size. You know, we've we've got a little over a hundred employees, you know, and I'm blessed, I say, to work with the best men and women that I've ever worked with.
Travis Yates:Well, it's interesting because I have asked that question to a lot of great leaders around the country and they all come back to what you just said the way you were raised and your family and there's always a part of I know in my experience and of course, what you described is growing up with a father that was a leader you want to emulate that. You want to make your father proud, which is certainly strange at our age that we're still trying to make our father proud, and there's something to that. But the other thing that I think is so interesting is you broke the mode. Like in law enforcement, we have this idea that we can send these folks to FBI and A and leadership schools. You've got to go up the ranks, you've got to do this, you've got to do that, and then one day, when you're 65, well, you could be a chief or you could be a sheriff and you earned your right. People know this about you, scott, but you left your other agency as a police officer no rank and I don't know this about you, scott, but you left your other agency as a police officer no rank, and I don't think you ever desired to have any rank and you stepped into a sheriff's job a very important position and literally hit the gas pedal. And that reminds me a lot of Mark Lamb. You know Mark Lamb.
Travis Yates:People that listen to this know that I talk about Mark Lamb a lot. I've been in his agency a lot. He did the same thing. He had no supervisor experience in law enforcement, although he had been a leader. He'd been a manager in private industry before that and he stepped in and hit the gas. That, I think that is.
Travis Yates:There's something to be said about that. Are we? Are we almost creating and ruining future leaders in law enforcement by thinking there's this pedestal or this system in place that you have to do before you get there, because you're almost brainwashed, in a sense, by the time you get there. Now that doesn't mean that someone can't do that and succeed. But, scott, you and I both know there's a roadmap to being a coward where you can succeed at a high level in law enforcement. You could step over everybody in your way and get to that promised land. We all know a few of them personally. Where do you think we have to get to to duplicate what you've done here, which is a department that people want to be at, may not be the highest paid department may not have the greatest benefits, because you don't control that, but they want to work for leadership. Why can't every department emulate that?
Scott Walton:You know you've stomped all over it right there and let's just, I mean we could talk for a month about you know what you just opened up. But you know to expound on that I do, I think we got so used to. You know an educational and I mean I'm all about education and training and you know standardized ways of discipline and different things like this. But you know you can't take the human part out of it and you know that's the part of this. You know I spoke about my father.
Scott Walton:The first police sergeant I ever worked for was the greatest one that ever existed and that was Bob Meyer. If anybody ever got the blessing to work for Bob Meyer, he was a fair guy. Blessing to work for bob meyer, he was a fair guy. Uh, I mean just uh, you know to me, uh, he just in every way was the best example of a good leader as a street sergeant. You know, hardcore, uh, old school, he could call it whatever you want but I mean got the job done.
Scott Walton:You know, was compassionate when he needed to be. Uh, you know, was tougher in hell when he needed to be. You know, was tougher in hell when he needed to be. But you know we can't send people to an academy or training that you know that prepares them. And again you said it. If all we wanted to talk about today was you know how to rise through the ranks in an agency you and I both come from Tulsa Police Department how to get where you want to go, it would be an ugly lesson. It would be a sickening lesson, equally as sickening. We've seen people in that position that got there by the way of.
Travis Yates:I mean, let's just swallow it, let's just solve it out.
Scott Walton:We've seen serial liars, serial liars, yeah. And you've got to say this, you've got to do this. If somebody, if you can walk across somebody's head and stick their head under the train, you just need to do that because it shows that you're not scared to discipline people. We don't slow down enough. You know to think that. You know let's put the right or wrong element in this thing. You know what the person do. Let's just get rid of them, whatever. And the best, worst example I could give anybody in the whole wide world is Betty Shelby's disaster of a career.
Travis Yates:Yeah, and I've got that on my notes. Let's back that up and let's tell them exactly sort of what happened. And I'll open up with because Betty worked for me the year before this incident happened. Betty Shelby was involved in a shooting completely justified. The investigator that worked with her said it was completely justified.
Scott Walton:But it was sort of this pre-George Floydyd, the very beginning, right after the ferguson type thing, and you saw everybody in sync bow down to the loudest voices right, you know we you probably got file footage of the Press release and I sat in my office that afternoon and watched, you know, the press conference, not press release. I watched the press conference where they talked about this and, my gosh, you had the police chief, chuck Jordan. You had Steve Coonswaller, district attorney. You had the US attorney, danny Williams at that time the mayor everybody got up and apologized for Betty's actions. They didn't slow down enough to talk about. You know she was trained to do a job. You know there was a difficult decision to be made there. You know the component that she needed to go home to her family that night. No, I mean we immediately apologized and at the conclusion of that press conference, you know I thought two things. I mean Betty screwed, betty's head's under the train and all the truth didn't matter at that point.
Scott Walton:No, and you know you just saw the best example of spinalist leadership. I thought, okay, why? I mean you know tragedy? Yeah, you know a man lost his life because of his stupid actions and this is just. I mean you fast forward through that deal. Betty goes through eight months of hell thinking that she's I mean you talked to her idea of whatever. She knew she was going to go to the penitentiary. I mean that was her belief and she probably had plenty of you know reasons to believe that, by the grace of God, she survived it.
Travis Yates:Well, the irony of it is you had figures, authority figures that we put our trust in to do the right thing, that we, you know, we elect or we hire, and they all left it to a jury to do the right thing People we don't pay to do it, people we don't think, but the jury actually took all those facts and made the right decision. But you've ruined a family.
Scott Walton:Betty walked out a free woman with a ruined career. You know, I never will forget this conversation. First conversation I had with Betty after this whole deal was over with I asked her. I said hey, I'm curious how the conversations went with you and Police Chief Chuck Jordan. And she looked at me kind of weird and said what do you mean? I said just, you know what did he say? And she said nothing. And I said you never had a conversation with him. She says no.
Scott Walton:Second conversation I ever had with Betty I said has Jordan said anything to you? Yet he said yeah, he came in my office, pointed his finger at me. When she came back to work, they put her in a little closet and give her about 20 minutes worth of work so she could go crazy. And he come in and said, pointed his finger at me and said you know, you're here for your own protection, not punishment, and walked out, you know? And I thought, okay, what did Betty do wrong? I mean why are you treating her like a piece of crap and continue to punish that you know that girl for again doing her job? And it keeps going on.
Travis Yates:Yeah, I mean we could duplicate that story across the country. Right, and unfortunately it's still happening. And when we talk about courageous leadership, that's the brunt of it. It's easy to lead in times of peace, but in times of chaos and activists and media and pressure, well, the truth is still the truth and you still have to lead.
Scott Walton:And you look at that day, I thought you know I'd have respect for Jordan if he'd stood up there in that press conference and said we're going to investigate this. I mean I mean inside and out, always. But we're going to do it. I mean we're going to do it in a fair way. The fact that that poor girl accepted the job to be a Tulsa police officer doesn't shortcut or give her any less of an opportunity to justify her actions. But I mean that whole deal. They accelerated it. I mean you know the affidavit.
Travis Yates:Well for the audience, because this happened a while back. You may not know this, in fact, I'm sure you don't know this they charged her before the investigation was complete. Now we've seen that repeated across the country, because that's what cowards do. They think that that helps them, but it actually hurts them. Right? Because at the end of the day oftentimes we see this time and time again the jury makes their, they take all the information, all the facts, the full investigation, and they make. The jury makes their. They take all the information, all the facts, the full investigation. They make the appropriate decision based on case law, and then the people that were screaming to charge her are now screaming the whole system is rigged, which is exactly what happened here, right?
Scott Walton:Well, I mean and I think it's the first, first example, I remember that happening in Tulsa, oklahoma, and you know Al Sharpton comes to town, he screams and yells I think he gets paid to do that Makes his demands that Betty's arrested and gosh, what happens next Betty gets arrested, you know, and you know her concerns at that time, you know, is death threats. I mean, we all know that. You know they had to go literally hide and you know she. You know the roller coaster that she went through. I mean financially, they weren't prepared. You know she. You know the roller coaster that she went through, I mean financially, they weren the road, you know screaming and yelling in a car. Uh, knowing that, hey, that could lead you to some problems. Betty, betty did her job. Betty walked into a situation that even some police officers wouldn't, you know. And especially after those incidents, uh, and we all know the one I think it was at Chicago right after that where a female officer got beaten near death.
Travis Yates:Yeah. When the chief asked her why she didn't shoot him, she said I didn't want to shoot an unarmed man because it would happen just right after the Shelby incident. And she's lucky to be alive today.
Scott Walton:And you just think about. You know, I would hate to think, and I know I'll be able to go to my grave saying that I didn't do anything in any leadership or administrative role that would add to a police officer. Think of that, bitch down and didn't say that. We'll just do our job, like it should be done, uh, everybody in that leadership role police chief, district attorney, anybody that got up there, the mayor they all said it, um and did it, uh, added they. They added to the police officer's decision making.
Scott Walton:If I didn't get too windy on that and make sense, I mean because you know, gosh dang, you know you can't tell me if you're a seasoned police officer near retirement. You know you've got your house paid off and you know things are starting to look pretty good for the future. You know, and finally, done this for this long and everything, I'm going to risk it by shooting a guy here that needs to be shot. You know, and finally, done this for this long and everything, I'm going to risk it, uh, by shooting a guy here that needs to be shot. You know, and and um, that's a hard way to say it maybe, uh, but I mean it's realistic as hell. Uh, you, you, you, you unwind uh, everything there about you know a tough decision to make anyway, um, and you went through it, I went through it. I mean situational exercises and and, and we got in service train on it after we graduated from the academy and everything.
Scott Walton:It was all about make the decision. You know I heard people screaming in my ear and slapped me on the back of the head saying you might not want to go home tonight. Maybe your partner does. You know you've got you've got partners and people here that you took an oath to protect. Betty did her job. You know it wasn't. And again, how many people want to walk into that situation and take care of business? Most of them would gladly drive past it or avoid it at all costs. And when you see again, I mean I watched that press conference and you know, for lack of better words, I mean that's the most chicken shit leader decisions across the board that I ever saw made in my life.
Travis Yates:Well, you saw that in your own backyard. We've seen that, of course, across the country. And, scott, you did something during that time period and you continue to do it today that I don't see anybody else doing here or across the country for the most part is you stood up for that officer. That officer did not work for you, she did not work in your agency. You, as a leader here in an adjoining county, stood up for her during that time, to this day as people just listen to, and then you offered her a job when she felt like she couldn't work at that agency anymore and you took a lot of heat for that, and I have an immense amount of respect, because this was not giving somebody a second chance. You've obviously done that as well. This was giving somebody the career back that was taken from her at no fault of her own.
Travis Yates:We can all repeat what you just said. Of course it's tragic. Of course it shouldn't have happened. It doesn't change the fact what happened and what nobody offered during that time period is what would you have done? I mean nobody, nobody. Everybody that wanted to criticize her never gave an alternative. Well, what would you have done? Because law enforcement isn't in a position to do what the citizens during that day, which was, running away and call 911. We're not in that position. We don't get to do that, and so we won't debate if it was wrong or not, because it was clearly wrong. But I think it's. Here you are and I've already sort of built a foundation. You end up a sheriff, no formal leadership training, and then you're the only person in this community that is standing up for this one officer. Once again. You knew you would take heat for that. You knew that you would get the media headlines for that, and you certainly did. You did it anyway. Explain that to us you know it.
Scott Walton:It's funny how it came about because I I was talking to a reporter, local news station and and we were done with whatever story we were talking about and uh, they were putting their equipment up and everything. And he goes, could I talk to you a little bit about betty shelby's deal? And said sure, and we talked, uh, about it and I really liked what the reporter had to say. And uh, he said let me ask you a question, would you hire? And I said in a heartbeat, and he said you want to do a story on it right now? I said, let's do. He sets his equipment back up and away. We went with that deal and maybe that kind of got some stuff going. I'd never talked to Betty about it. I didn't really know Betty. I knew her husband thought well of him, but I thought first of all I actually reached out to her and said we did this story. I don't know what your plans for the future are, but if that's an interest to you let's sit down and talk. And we did. And she said I got some things just in life. I need to get put together because last eight months have been hell, and so I get it. And you know I said, if you're ready to, you know to do something, let's sit down and talk. Okay, I'll call you.
Scott Walton:Some time goes by, she calls, we sit down. And her request was you know, if I do this, I mean I want to apply and interview and do everything. Just, I mean, and that's the way we do it anyway, I don't just say, hey, you want a job and you know you're on or whatever. And, uh, she went through board interview. Um, she, I mean again, like like square one, start in law enforcement career. Um, hit the ground running with us. Uh, she said, I really I need to start on a part-time basis. Actually, she, she reserved for us for a while and, um, I mean, and just to get the feel of the county and see how much different this was because I told her it's drastically different. Uh, you know, out here in the middle of you know, a county that's, um, you know, spread out as opposed to, you know, metropolitan areas. I want you know that she volunteers for a little bit.
Scott Walton:People liked her. She started part-time and then eventually full-time and I mean truly an asset. She's still involved with our agency, but she has to do that remotely for the simple reason that you know her and her husband had to move out. I mean things. You know it wasn't over with. Then you know he had relatives that became ill, that they had to be cared for. They would have probably had to move anyway, but they move out of state and sad story. But you know, she calls me one day and she said you know, I've applied, you know, for you know a fishing game, you know like a game warden, uh, wildlife officer, um, in this other state, and could I use you for reference? And and uh for full-time employment I said absolutely.
Scott Walton:You know, hung the phone up after a conversation I I thought she didn't have a snowball chance of hell getting that job.
Scott Walton:They'll Google her name and it's over with before it starts. They'll go to the next one that doesn't have the headlines that she has when you Google her name. Honestly, they've altered their identity, you know, they've taken on new careers and everything and I thought you know why. You know what I mean, Because she showed up for work one day and did her job and I think that whole deal, Betty, wasn't a weak link. I mean, the weak link was the spineless leadership throughout the top of the department and on through the DA's office.
Travis Yates:Well, and you describe what we've seen so often. This is, of course, the end result of horrible leadership, coward leadership. But getting back to what courage is I mean? You displayed it, right. You had no reason. There was no benefit to you Probably it was to your demise to stand up for her, but you knew what was right. In fact, here's the thing, scott unless you're a psychopath, everyone knows what's right. Why do people avoid doing what's right, like I have? No doubt? I know these men that you just talked about in this chain of command. I've had great interactions with them. I've seen them make right decisions.
Travis Yates:But when this decision came, there was so much to lose. Whether you call it reputation, which you don't control anyway Shakespeare says it's fleeting or whether it's their career or whatever else, whether it's politics Right they had. It was such a detrimental decision they steered away from that right and wrong metric. But that leadership isn't leadership if you're not willing to do what's right at all times. You have displayed that time and time again. That's not the only officer you reached out to that has been victims of cowards. Right to that has been victims of cowards, right I mean it's. It's just crazy to me that I will. I will keep saying this that you're the only you want.
Scott Walton:If we can name the courageous leaders on one hand, there's not enough of them, and you're one of them, right I want to be, um, you know, I just um, you know the, the internal reward of that, and you know we're in a profession here I'm not telling you anything that you know it's, it's full of type, a personalities. You know, and, and, and I go back to that old saying I heard a long time ago you know, everybody wants to be a cowboy. Tell us time to do cowboy shit. And and then you know, let's, let's find something else to do. And and, uh, what's mike tyson?
Travis Yates:say everyone's getting a fight till they get hit in the mouth.
Scott Walton:And you know those things are never going to go out of style. And you know, I just honestly and we've seen it I mean you know we know some of the best and the worst uh forms of life in the law enforcement profession and uh, sadly enough, you know, some of those uh low, crawling uh forms are able to quickly climb that that ladder of success through the ranks. Uh, if you know how to play the game and you don't mind, you know selling your soul and and and literally, you know taking on a piss ant mentality of how we're going to lead. And I, I mean uh, that's another word my dad always used, you know, I mean uh, and it wasn't in a favorable way, you know. I mean uh, if he called somebody a piss ant, uh, they, they, they didn't display those things and I'm thankful I come out. And you know you're younger than I am, but I mean you're out of the same mold of people. I mean those guys they didn't call it America's greatest generation for nothing, you know, but the weak ones weren't cowards, you know.
Scott Walton:And now, and what infuriates me more, if we go to the corporate world, you know it, I mean you've been all through it. There's spineless people in it and there's, there's people, I'm sure, out there I've never really been in the corporate world that much that that are going to do the right thing and treat people right and display, you know, really biblical principles that are so simple. You know. I mean treat somebody like you want to be treated. You know, and that's the part that bothers me when we get into a profession of law enforcement where, yeah, I mean I want to put on these clothes and and dress like a badass and and go out and be a badass and and all this kind of stuff. But when it, when it's time to make a decision, you know that that, uh, you might have to wear. But you know I'm internally the way I feel. I can say I've never had an opportunity in my life to have a better feeling about myself internally than when I hired Betty Shelby. I knew I was doing the right thing.
Scott Walton:When I hired Wayne Brown, when I hired Bruta George, guys were, I mean, I'm not just throwing Tulsa Police Department under the bus, but these were all three individuals that Tulsa Police Department had kicked to the curb and they're fine here and, trust me, we had, before they came to work here, we had that conversation. I said, you know there's people that would love to see me fail and you fail, so we don't need to fail. Betty and I had that same conversation. We knew it. But you know you think, boy, just what if anything happened? You know we could. I mean, but what again? What did those guys do wrong? I mean, you know Drew DeGeorge hadn't been here very long. I mean, he's a standout.
Travis Yates:Well, he's an all-star. What they did wrong was they were great at what they did, which is a whole other conversation. Right, I mean, we're not throwing a blanket generic on all law enforcement, but you have these pockets in this profession to where? I mean? I just had a conversation with a guy in Sacramento and he said, man, this kid worked for me and he was brilliant and the department recognized he was brilliant and the department shut him down at every angle. He left it with like six years on Now he's developed some technology that's made him a millionaire. He said sometimes he says this quote to me sometimes you can be too smart for this job.
Travis Yates:And that's leadership issue. Because what leaders should do, scott, what I've seen you do time and time again is you lean into it. You take the expertise you have here in this agency and you lean into it and say do your thing. You give them the freedom to do it. And that's why I think and I'll tell you right now I won't name names, but I've had people that work for you come up to me that said you know, I've been offered a job A, b, c or D, better benefits, better stability, better salary, but I'm not leaving, scott Walton, that relationship leadership to me how you. I mean, I had a guy tell me that he gave you a call one day and you spent two hours with him on the phone talking to him. This should not be rare and I need people to understand. This is how it's supposed. Scott Walton is not a super standout leader although I think you are, scott. Scott Walton should be the norm.
Scott Walton:That's what we're talking about. You know, nothing could piss me off quicker and more than somebody thinking I'm trying to do this just to be a John Wayne image or a coward. And I look at that deal. You know I don't want it to look that way and some people say, okay, it's another publicity stunt. You know, you and I both had enough time talking to the media and I enjoy talking to the media and I want to get our message out there and the only way I got to do it is through our local media. Local media treats us great and I don't miss any opportunity to stand in front of a camera and tell what we're doing over here in Rogers County. But you know I don't want it to ever come across like, okay, here Walton comes with another publicity stunt. If I was I'm not smart enough to pull off a publicity stunt like hiring Betty Shelby, and I thought, you know, if I ever was going to pull one off, I'd have seen that coming way down the pike. I've got to go hire Betty Shelby.
Scott Walton:Well, well, that would be a pretty bad publicity stunt, yeah no, I think it comes full by that circle, you know, because, uh, you know, we had a deal and I got recorded, uh, on a phone conversation that went sound kind of south. Uh didn't like the way something was happening. It takes a long time to tell a story and uh I was. I was arguing with a, with a police officer, uh, about a facebook post that he posted on one of our deputies that didn't even know it was coming, and uh and it it got heated and uh it ended. You ended with me using some language that I probably shouldn't have. I said, well, let's just agree on this part of it.
Travis Yates:Was it something like let's just agree, you're an asshole, something like that? It was worse than that.
Scott Walton:But actually I did apologize to my church for saying what I said and you know I thought okay.
Travis Yates:You said it in defense of an employee. Yep, I mean, you know nobody's going to say we should act like that, but when you were defending an employee I think it may be, as I don't even know the answer you're talking about, but maybe as bad as those words were to your church, I'm thinking they weren't just said in jest. You were defending an employee and Lord knows we could use a few more of that.
Scott Walton:I never forget some of the good, positive comments I got after I said that to a church and people walking out and a few days later and some phone calls I got and everything. I mean they weren't supportive of my language but they were supportive of what I did and that by itself and get this. I mean, if we just want to talk about spineless leadership and I'll back off, I've used plenty of names and stuff and it's starting to look like I'm picking on a specific agency or a specific person or whatever. If anybody wanted to know, I'll fill in the blanks later.
Scott Walton:But interesting, you know the young officer that I had that conversation with that it went south. He was done with that right then. He was. I mean he wasn't. You know he's gonna let it go. I mean why he recorded it I don't know, but people knew it was recorded. He wasn't going, he wasn't out on the corner trying to sell you know recordings of that and and get rich or anything else.
Scott Walton:But the police chief at that time that I don't remember my mouth about found out that that was recorded and uh, and as that information came to me, uh, he gave the instructions to get that to the media. Well, I mean didn't take long. I mean that afternoon I remember well, I was going to, I was going to uh, talk to a group of people in Chelsea, oklahoma, and got a little heads up that hey, this recording just hit the newsroom and everybody's got it and it's not hard to look it up. I don't know how you find it, but I mean Google my own name. It's up in there, you know. But there again, dadgum, you know I won in a weird way. Maybe see some other guys try to get on this wagon. I hope it resonates out that way if you're being sincere.
Scott Walton:But I mean, I got a lot of positive feedback from that, I mean, and I learned from it, you know. I mean there's no reason to. You know you don't need to use that kind of language to get your point across. You know, I mean I'd even been given a heads up before I had the conversation with him that hey, he's the kind of guy that probably records you and everything. But you know, once again, you know the pissant, spineless leadership went all the way to the top and you know I couldn't prove that if my life depended on it. But uh, without throwing people's names down, but you know I get a call from you know a toss, a uh administrator that uh said, hey, that that instructions to get that recording to the media happened today. I knew it was on the way, so so so be it, and hell for a better way to say it. I appreciate the publicity they gave me out of it.
Travis Yates:What would you tell somebody, scott Because let's not assume that everybody in positions of authority understand the foundation of leadership. What we're talking about what would you tell them to just start doing? What have you seen so successful at your agency? And what you do I know one of them I'll just tell you is so rare is you spend time with people. You know we so often get to a high level, we insulate ourselves and these officers are around, these other high-level leaders, and that's kind of the last thing you should be doing when you get to that level, because you lose contact and touch really quickly. But if you give them advice advice people in positions of authority, if you want to you want to start this sort of foundation of courage and build a culture in your agency where people will stay no matter what, what, what advice would you give them?
Scott Walton:in, in, in quick, in quick word doesn't say running my dad. Well, running like my dad won't a welding shop, you know. But I'll expound on that because you know a 40-year-old undersheriff really steers his ship. I mean you've been around it long enough, you know. I mean John Saban is an undersheriff and he does a great job and you know the day-to-day personnel matters. He handles them, you know. I mean I don't get too deep in the hiring process or the termination process or anything John does. That's an ugly part of the job. But he's not made to look out like, he's not made to be the bad guy or anything, because you know it resonates the decisions are ours.
Travis Yates:So know your role, know your job, empower others, but you know.
Scott Walton:John and I, I mean, used to talk about it a little bit. Now it doesn't even come up in the conversation. You know, the template that needs to lay over that whole deal is do the right thing. You know what I mean. What's the right thing? You know, sometimes it bites, but you know, more often than not it doesn't.
Scott Walton:And, man, you said some things, you know, that really make me feel good and I thought, man, I hit my mark. You know, I'm 69 years old. I got no expectations of leaving anytime soon. I certainly, when I leave, I want the undersheriff, john Sappington, to be able to step into this role, and why? Because he'll treat them the same way. But I mean, what would you do? And anything that, as you well know and you've said it, and anything that, as you well know and you've said it.
Scott Walton:I mean I drove into this place January 5, 2009, being a city cop in Tulsa, oklahoma. Never a supervisor, damn sure, didn't know anything about running a jail, and I inherit this thing that it was an honest agency, but it was outdated and the, you know Rogers County had grown so much. So, um, I mean I tell you I had, I had no business and wasn't um prepared to do it and and, by the grace of God, made it through some times that should have ate us up. But you know, going back to you know dear old dad giving me some I mean real basic, you know leadership lessons or supervisor lesson. He told me something that I'd probably hesitate to tell other people for the reason, like you know, if you work men, you know you treat them good. Out of that I got, you don't treat them equal, you treat them fair, and I think that's something people need to think a little bit right there. I mean, you know the guy that's trying his best may not, you know, may not be the best all the time, but you know if his heart's in the right place.
Scott Walton:My dad took care of people that you know, that that performed and and and, uh, you know, made him look good and and and and got the job done, uh. But he said you know you can't have a bad day, you know you can't show weakness, you can't. You know you can't cry, you can't do anything except lead them in, and you know I mean I grabbed that. You know that kind of sucks. You know some days, you know.
Scott Walton:You know we all get a little heavy-hearted sometimes and you know you think I was thinking and who do I go whine to? You know we could blend that with modern day by gosh, let's get some help, let's talk to a counselor, get some of that load off of you. But you know I look at my dad and I promise you he never did any of that. You know I mean he didn't go whine to somebody.
Scott Walton:You know he might cuss and scream and kick something across the room and do something that looked pretty mean or aggressive, but he'd also be the first one there when somebody was sick or somebody died in the family or somebody needed some help and somebody pulled up at our house needing $20 for groceries. I'm like crap, we ain't got $20 to be handing out for groceries or whatever. But you know guys tell me those stories now that you know he did plenty for people and he had no time for piss ants. And it's funny, I look, look back now people, I knew that that he didn't respect or anything. He wasn't like he was going out after him just trying to rip their heads off or anything. He just didn't acknowledge them.
Travis Yates:You know, I mean they were like they were invisible, I mean well, that's a that's an extremely important point that we could all learn from, because we spend so much time on that chaos?
Scott Walton:he wouldn't. I mean he's the same guy. I mean I mean he I never saw him back down from anything. He, he would. I mean he would absolutely, I mean fight the devil himself if, if it came down to that, he wasn't going to take a step backwards. I mean if he knew he was right and and I'm blessed to be around you know a man like that, and not just my father, but that generation you know of men that he worked around with and and I even saw and I kind of thought I mean worked on more freight docks and you know hayfields and and around agriculture and obviously this blue collar maybe we got.
Scott Walton:Maybe just need to stop and study blue collar. You know, uh, for a minute, but I'm so proud to be associated and have roots that come from the blue collar world. Uh, that, the, the men that I was around, uh, not my father, but my, you know, my friends, their dads, you know we're also similar. They, uh, also similar. They just weren't and I'm not. If you look at our sheriff's office, it's a young bunch of people that are doing a great job. They're great leaders that are doing the right thing.
Scott Walton:They don't fit the mold of you know, the Gen X of the millennial that you know. So you can't I don't think you can paint that generation with the same brush, because we got great examples of that generation, uh, working here. You, you'd like to think the fact that, uh, you know if, if that's spineless leadership in these other agencies, I think it's, it's, it's toxic and it gets down on those guys and they learn that you know, yeah, you just. I, part of this world is you just, you know, you just treat people like crap and get on down the road.
Travis Yates:It's I want our audience to understand this that it's an interesting dichotomy, that what a great homage to your father. I can't think of a better way to pay respect to your parents or to your grandparents or the people that poured into you. Because that is carrying on. I can say I can speak for myself, even though I didn't realize it Everything I speak about leadership I saw in my father. Now you don't realize that when you go to college and you go get your doctorate degree and you're all this, you got all these certificates on the wall, but at the end of the day, that doesn't matter.
Travis Yates:What matters is what you pour into other people and, Scott, that's what I see you do here at your agency is you're taking those lessons you learned from your father in that generation and you are pouring into these people, and so, in that respect, that's what legacy is, because that will remain. They will then in be in positions as yourself, pouring into people. I'd be remiss before getting off here before asking you about your foundation. I think you're doing incredible work there. Talk to us about the Stand First Foundation.
Scott Walton:I'm glad you said that I got wound up on this other stuff. I go around thinking about our foundation constantly, stand First Foundation kind of starts. And here we go, generation three of the Walton family or whatever, but my sons bless their heart, matt and Joe, two great guys. And you know my son, matt and I were talking multiple times about leadership and supervision and things like that, and he knows how I think about my father and and uh, I guess he just got tired of hearing me bitch and screen about you know, leadership and not doing things and everything. So stand first foundation starts off of him just kind of calling me out, saying, you know, I said everybody's going to talk about nobody wants to do anything. And he said, I mean, you know? He said outside of my job as chairman. He said you know, what are you doing that way to carry that message outside? You know?
Scott Walton:And and uh, another good friend of mine, nick weber, suggested you know we start a foundation and my intentions, uh, were to start this foundation that's going to save all first responders from any hard times that they could ever fall down, include military on that, because this is the core of this great nation, it's going to save it. And I got so much. I mean the firefighters, emts, the dispatchers, our veterans, law enforcement I mean don't want to leave anybody out there. Firefighters for sure. I mean these are the people that you know will do what most people are scared to do, so we want to do something to save them. You know, if they come on disciplinary action, that wasn't just or anything.
Scott Walton:So I come up with this great, great big idea and I got to visit with a friend of yours and mine, roger Chastain, that runs the Tulsa Police Foundation and great success there. And he says, scott, you've got a great idea, but this thing's got to get narrowed down. You can carry your word out there and your you know your your methods and stuff and you should, but you got to get this narrowed down to like one tangible item that we can take out and put in the hands of people. Uh, and so, talking to another buddy of ours that you know you know scott wood, the lawyer that def defends police officers in shootings and used deadly force and stuff I said, scott, we need to come up with an idea, something police officers need that they don't have. He just spit it right out. I said ballistic shields.
Scott Walton:Long, long answer to a short question there, brother. So long, long answer to a short question there, brother. The Stand First Foundation started in 2020, and our deal is to provide ballistic shields to agencies that won't see them or don't see enough of them also into schools as well. So we've had you know if that donor is not so much into giving to law enforcement but is interested in protection for the schools. We've outfitted a lot of school resource officers in the area and we can go anywhere in the United States. We're buying these shields for $1,000 apiece right now. We've given now over $100. I think we're close to $120.
Scott Walton:And this thing's starting to take. Our director, Ryan Sheehan, has done a great job of getting it to the next level. When you look in the town you know in surrounding areas we've got the community leaders and the people that are certainly generous to the profession of law enforcement on our side. You know, with the names, we got not just a name-dropping thing, but we got the right. We can't fail with the people. We got behind this.
Travis Yates:Yeah, we'll link that up in the podcast notes. What's the website, Scott, for people to know more information?
Scott Walton:It's Stan S-T-A-N-D. The number one firstorg, and go there please. I mean, one of the niches that we really try to push out is our 1024 donation, a reoccurring donation of $10.24 a month that somebody can sign up and donate that way. But, standfirstorg, check us out.
Travis Yates:Scott Walton, this has been a pleasure. You'd never disappoint. I'm so thankful that you spent time with us out. Awesome, scott Walton, this has been a pleasure. You'd never disappoint. I'm so thankful that you spent time with us today. As we keep hearing around your agency, you will spend time with those you're trying to pour into. Thanks for pouring into our audience. I can't thank you enough. Thank you for being here. Thanks for having me, travis, and if you've been listening, thank. We hope you have a great 2025. We think this is a great kickoff for you. Thank you so much. We'll see you next week.
Speaker 2:Thank you for listening to Courageous Leadership with Travis Yates. We invite you to join other courageous leaders at www. travisyates. org.
