Courageous Leadership with Travis Yates
Courageous Leadership with Dr. Travis Yates Podcast examines what it means to be a Courageous Police Leader. Join us weekly as the concepts of Courageous Leadership are detailed along with interviews with influencers that are committed to leading with courage. You can find out more about Courageous Leadership with Travis Yates at: www.TravisYates.org
Courageous Leadership with Travis Yates
Leadership and Resilience with Chief Thomas Weitzel
Join us for an engaging conversation with Chief Thomas Weitzel, a retired police chief with a profound 37-year career in law enforcement. Chief Weitzel offers a detailed account of his journey, from his early days at a private-public police agency at Brookfield Zoo to his role as the chief of Riverside, Illinois. Through his personal stories and experiences, he reveals how a life-threatening incident early in his career shaped his resilience and leadership style. Discover how he maneuvered the complexities of supporting officers, and learn the vital importance of building strong relationships with both elected officials and the community.
Chief Weitzel openly discusses the hurdles of navigating police leadership amid political pressures and societal changes. He sheds light on the intricate dynamics of ensuring job security while maintaining transparency with the community.
Mentioned Article On Chief Weitzel's critical incident.
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Welcome to Courageous Leadership with Travis Yates, where leaders find the insights, advice and encouragement they need to lead courageously.
Travis Yates:Welcome back to the show. I'm so honored you decided to spend a few minutes with us here today, and we have an awesome guest today. Tremendous amount of experience, I think it's really something we can all learn from, so I hope you stick with us through the entire episode. On today's show we have Chief Thomas Weitzel. He retired in 2021 for 37 years of service. He's a nationally certified ethics instructor. He holds a master's degree in criminal justice from Lewis University and is a graduate of numerous leadership schools, including session 218 of the FBI National Academy. His resume is long. He's a volunteer ambassador for the National Law Enforcement Memorial Fund. Much more he's been involved in. We're certainly interested in learning from him today. Tom, how are you doing, sir?
Thomas Weitzel:I'm doing fantastic. Thank you for having me sir, I'm doing fantastic.
Travis Yates:Thank you for having me. Well, you know, it's always seemed strange to me that people like us I believe you were chief for over 13 years and obviously you have 37 years of service that people just kind of retire and that's kind of it. And I really have often thought that there's so much we can learn from individuals such as yourself and others that have invested so much and given so much to this profession. But you've stayed pretty active after retirement. So I guess the first question is walk us through your career. I want to get to a seminal event about three years into your career, so maybe jump over that for now, but kind of walk us through your career and then we'll kind of get to what you're doing now.
Thomas Weitzel:Yeah, so I started my career actually, for in Illinois they have a private public police agency. It was actually through the Chicago Zoological Society at Brookfield Zoo. They were fully certified police officers but it was more of a private than it was public. Your jurisdiction was just on their grounds. I started there, probably 22. And then I started testing locally and I ended up in Riverside, which was adjacent to Brookfield, and I worked 37 years and I've held every position there.
Thomas Weitzel:I started as a patrol officer, was after 15 years, promoted the patrol sergeant. I did six years as the patrol sergeant, I did six years as the detective sergeant, I went to an operations lieutenant to the deputy chief and then I even did a stint as acting chief until the elected officials in Riverside decided what way they wanted to go, because there was, you know, they were going to do a national search. And it's kind of funny. They came to me and said, hey, Tom, we're going to spend these big dollars to do a national search to find a new chief. Would you be willing to put in for it? And I said nope, I've worked here for 25.
Thomas Weitzel:You know me, you know. I said you know, I don't think that's the way to go. And about three days later the current, the politicians and then our city manager came to see me and said okay, what does it take for us to put you in that position? So then we negotiated an employment contract for me. But you know, initially I had a very difficult time that they were going to spend all this money and do this national search. Riverside is a suburban community of Chicago and I, you know, they had known me inside and out and I'm glad that they decided not to do that.
Travis Yates:Yeah, and it's so often that department cities do that right, it's almost to look like they're doing some national search, even though they want somebody that they take. So it's not the right decision to make. But you lasted there, I believe, 13 years as chief. That is not an easy thing to do. What was the secret? Because you know most chiefs are, you know they don't last that long in that position. Very stressful position, very tough position.
Thomas Weitzel:Kind of what was the secret to your success with that lasting that long? Yeah, so you're right, it was a long time, especially in Illinois. I mean, I think that 10 years most chiefs is like four to five years, but I had a really good. The citizens in Riverside Illinois are very supportive of the police. The elected officials were very supportive in almost all cases and our village manager was as well.
Thomas Weitzel:And you know, when I was first hired, the very first village president I worked on, he came to my office and he said like how are you going to make sure that we as elected officials stay updated on what's going on in your agency and in the crime but yet still have this buffer where our elected officials aren't trying to intercede in policing? And I said you know what, Mr Mayor? I said good policing is good politics. And he looked at me and he's like what I said, as long as my agency does its job and I keep you informed as to what is happening, probably before it makes it to the media, they always like that, you know things will work out. And I tell you that held true for me. I never had one of my elected officials ever come and try to intervene in a police-related issue, they would only ask me for information, and that's kind of a rarity in today's world.
Travis Yates:Yeah, unfortunately, you're right, it certainly is. It seems like the more they try to interject politics into it, we've gotten to where we are today, so that's been a dramatic change. Now, tom, I think it's very improbable. You led the career you had. You had an event that happened as a young officer that really could have derailed that. Talk us through that and how you came out the other end of that.
Thomas Weitzel:Yeah. So in August of 1987, I was shot in the line of duty and I didn't really talk about it until after I retired, for several reasons I'll get into in a minute. But my shooting was this incident where it was 3 o'clock in the morning, we used single patrol vehicles in Riverside. At that time I was by myself. There was a car parked illegally no big deal, something I deal with every day. I got out of the car to go up and get a VIN number off of it because it had no license plates on it and the windows were darkened. And as I got out of my patrol vehicle, when I got to the front of my vehicle, the back door of that car literally rolled open and the offender rolled out like you'd see some military roll. And I heard the slide of the punk shotgun. You never, you know, you know that sound. And I was shot just like that. And I heard the slide of the punk shotgun. You never, you know, you know that sound. And I was shot just like that. And I was shot with birdshot. So it spread and the birdshot hit my bulletproof vest. At that time it sprayed into my eyes and mouth. So I had, I survived that shooting.
Thomas Weitzel:But what had happened? It lifted me off the ground and it threw me against my squad car and I hit my head against the bumper and knocked me out. It also cut my police radio in half, so the portable radio that I had on me the wire connecting the radio from my hip to the lapel mic was shredded so I couldn't call for help when I woke up, like about a minute later shredded, so I couldn't call for help. When I woke up, like about a minute later, and I believe they walked over me and probably thought I was dead, because that was probably 10 feet between their car and where they shot me and it was point blank right in my chest, threw me up and when I woke I had to crawl back to my squad car and use the police radio that was in the squad itself and I had to call for help.
Thomas Weitzel:And you know I was. I was amazed I was even able to do that. But yeah, so I was treated. I was taken to the hospital. I was treated for broken ribs, internal bleeding, eye injuries and some blood vessels had broken throughout my entire neck area and chest area. So I was in the hospital for about three days and then I was released.
Travis Yates:Wow, not many people get to tell a story like that, point blank with a shotgun Thank God that was birdshot and you had a vest on. But I had a friend get killed with birdshot chief close range but he was not wearing a vest, man. So I have to think that that probably dictated how you operated as a chief as you went through the ranks. You had an experience there. You had the aftermath of that experience with the city and the agency. How did that help you navigate other critical incidents that would occur when you were in leadership positions?
Thomas Weitzel:Yeah, you know, riverside wasn't ready. It's the first police officer that ever had shot in the line of duty. They didn't really have good support. The officers were fantastic. The leadership just didn't know what to do, quite frankly.
Thomas Weitzel:So I me and my wife kind of had to navigate this situation, and I had, as it happened, I was scheduled for vacation like three days after the shooting had taken place, so they allowed me to do that to postpone it. But I had to go through all this medical testing and psychological testing to return to work. But they didn't send me the professionals that could handle police officers. I was being sent to a local hospital with a psychologist that had no experience at all, and then they put me under to help try to find the offenders. They wanted to put me under hypnosis and I said, sure, that's fine. Well, they, they contracted with a doctor that had no skill at all in hypnosis and no, you know treating of police officers and first responders. He literally kind of tried to lead me down the road by saying stuff like the car was green right, like no, the car wasn't green, the car was green right. I said no, the car wasn't green and actually wrote me up as uncooperative. So I'll never forget that. And they just didn't know how to handle it.
Thomas Weitzel:So I wanted to make sure, if I ever got in a position of leadership, that I would do everything to support my officers in these types of situations, any situation. And it changed my philosophy because there were a lot of people that told me you know, tom, you should just stop working. I'm like I don't know, this is my skill. I went to college for it, I went to school for it, I'm a police officer, I'm newly married, I'm going to have a family. I just can't get up and quit. I mean, I just can't do that.
Thomas Weitzel:And even though my wife wanted me to and you know a funny story about that bulletproof vest the village of Riverside didn't provide vests. Back then my wife purchased me that. She bought me that vest when I became a police officer as a gift. And back then it was a point blank. I don't know if you remember that was the name of the bulletproof vest and a story behind that is I didn't like the way.
Thomas Weitzel:So my chief came to me afterwards. He said hey, tom, point blank, contacted us and they're willing to get by a bulletproof vest for every single police officer free because of your shooting If you agree to do commercials for them. So what do you mean by that? He's like, well, they want you to do print ads in police magazines, police chief magazines, other magazines, where you will tell your story and they will, in turn, purchase vests. I'm like, I don't want to publicize this. This is something I'm proud of. And when he said, well, let them send you the script, they sent me this script, travis, this is an absolute truth.
Thomas Weitzel:And they embellished the story. That didn't even happen. They made it seem like I was in some type of gunfight and this was 100% ambush. And I told my chief then and I only had three years on the job, I'm like no, chief, I'm not going to do this. He's like he got very angry at me and said do you understand? They will buy a bulletproof vest for every single officer If you just do this. I'm like, well, they're lying, they're making. Just do this. I'm like well, they're lying, they're, they're making, they're embellishing this story for their benefit. It's. I'm not going to go on any news program or I'm not going in any print magazine. And I'm telling you, the chief held it against me for the rest of my till he retired well, yeah, because they're in a bad spot.
Travis Yates:They're going to have to buy these vests and they wanted to get it for nothing, right?
Thomas Weitzel:and they did end up buying them.
Travis Yates:You're correct oh, man, you're talking about risk management, one-on-one. We wait till an officer gets shot before we provide vests, my goodness. Um, well, yeah, I mean, I tend to agree. I think many people, as you know, chief, they leave the profession after an event like that and, uh, you, of course, have gotten away through it. You just recently started talking about it. There was a great article in police one earlier this year, and uh, I don't even know what to say to it. Obviously, it's, it's a pretty incredible story, but I'm sure, certainly it shaped your leadership style. But you became chief in a very unique time. How did you see? Just a minute, mel man came. Give it a second. Hey, all right here we go.
Travis Yates:Yeah, chief, you became Chief at a very unique time, probably a time that we would all hearken back to. I'm trying to go back to 13 years since you retired, but things got really weird around 2012, 2013, 2014, and we really haven't looked back. Just give me your take on that and how you sort of navigated that, because the chief's job went from we're going to focus on the mission, reducing crime. That tends to keep citizens happy of all political backgrounds right, it certainly keeps politicians happy. Back in the day to to a time today where you can't even find a chief getting in trouble for higher crime like the mission doesn't seem to be on the forefront. There seems to be all these external factors, and so maybe you were in a great situation there in riverside, or maybe you weren't, but kind of, how did you see that happening there locally, and then what you saw nationally?
Thomas Weitzel:Yeah, you know I was in a good position. So when you know it's uncommon like when I was promoted up to chief, it's an appointment made by the city manager, the village manager, the elected officials I had one requirement that I wanted an employment contract, and they were like no, we're not going to give you one. You know, that's only for outside chiefs that come in, because if we don't like you in a year or two you can just go back to your civil service rank of lieutenant. So we're not. I said well, I'm not taking the job without that. So we negotiated a con. I got a lawyer, they got their lawyer. We negotiated every four years the contract would be up and I there was a clause that they could fire me or reduce me for just cause. But I wanted some protection because I didn't want to be the type of chief that was going to stay out of the fray just because my politicians didn't like it, and what I mean by that.
Thomas Weitzel:It was a rough times there times. Riverside is an upper middle class community and most of our violent crime came from the city of Chicago. We were west of the city of Chicago. Our criminals would come west, they would commit violent crimes and flee back east. That was the absolute pattern. That would happen all the time and I was very open with the media and I would put a lot of press releases out, or my detectives would put press releases out. We'd release mud shots. We'd be very, very proactive and some of the residents and elected officials didn't like it because they thought it made the village look crime ridden Instead of giving the residents education about what's actually going on and not lying to them and giving them what's currently happening and I always was of the opinion Travis is how could you make proper safety decisions for you and your family if the police department is not putting out factual information Like how do you do that?
Thomas Weitzel:So you know, I had to maneuver through that and luckily I had a very good village manager that supported me and a very good village president that supported me. But you know where I got a lot of the pushback was it's from other police chiefs who actually were in their position because they were politically appointed there. And I got to be honest with you if their mayor or city president told them not to do something, they wouldn't do it, even though it was the right thing to do, and they would get. I would get more pushback from my colleagues sometimes than I would from you know, my residents or politicians, and I could never figure that out, like why, why are you, why are you my worst, you know, critic?
Travis Yates:No, you, you hit the nail on the head right there. I mean, we talk about courageous leadership. It talks about hey, you just need to do what's right, that doesn't matter what some mayor says or what some activist says, what is right. And I think they're in such self-protection mode chief Me myself and I protecting what I have. We're seeing a an abject failure around the country because, you're right, they're more concerned about that than actually taking care of the citizens, which is extremely ironic.
Thomas Weitzel:Yeah, you know, once when I attended the FBI National Academy in Quantico I was I went to this leadership class for 12 weeks. I was there, very well known in the FBI ranks of, a Very well known in the FBI ranks of, the instructor was a highly decorated helicopter pilot, Marine helicopter pilot, and saw numerous combat. His name was Tim Turner. We sat in this stadium and I'm white, so Right, and I'm at the top. It was alphabetical, so you so. You know, cops, none of us like to sit towards the beginning. You know how that is right. They don't, they don't want to sit near the front of the class, but I, they put us there alphabetically. And one day he looked up at me and he said Mr Weitzel, come on down here. And I came all the way down and he said you know how's it going? And I said I'm coasting, and he's, and there's like two weeks left of the academy, I had all my papers in and he said what did you just say? And I said I'm coasting, he's like. And then he let him, he, he unleashed on me in front of the whole class, which is 200 of us international students, and he said don't you ever say coasting in front of me again. He's like because you know what, Mr Whitesell, if you're coasting, you're going downhill and you want to be a leader. And he goes. You don't ever want to go downhill, do you Tom? And I'm like, oh no, I don't. And then he built me back up.
Thomas Weitzel:After that he sent me back up and he's like he made this example of me and then, while I was walking up the stairs back to my seat, he said hey, Tom, do you think leaders are born or can we create leaders? And I said I think you can educate leaders and you can build leaders. He goes. You know, I agree with you, he goes. The one thing you can't do, Tom, is charisma. He goes. Charisma, you're born with he goes. Leaders, you're born with, he goes. Leaders, I believe we can develop. And that was like an introduction to me of leadership. I was like, well, that was really powerful.
Travis Yates:Yeah, yeah, I wasn't too far behind you. I was in 227. So my math, probably two or three years after you, and I don't have a story like that. I got stories I probably can't tell. But yeah, I don't have a story like that. I've got stories I probably can't tell. Very interesting time for sure, tom. Even though you've been gone about three years from the profession, you've got to be shaking your head at what continues to happen. We go from recruiting issues and retention issues. Is it mainly what you just said about politics that's creating this, or is there something else going on? We should discuss about it.
Thomas Weitzel:It is politics. You know there's no one that can be listening or watching your podcast and doesn't know that the George Floyd incident affected law enforcement, without a doubt. Right, that was huge. All three of my adult children are police officers in suburban Chicago. I hear it all the time. They all have at least 10 years on the job and some of them want to leave the profession or they want to leave the department out of the metropolitan Chicago area and get farther out away into really suburban policing.
Thomas Weitzel:And it's all because of the way that politicians are interacting with law enforcement, the way media organizations at least some of them and the public and these so-called activists who want to just have a state of like de-policing and no policing at all, let alone defund policing. And in Illinois, if any, you know, there was this recent article about well, defund the police is gone. I wrote an op ed in the paper that said it's not gone. What's happening is our politicians are defunding the police through legislation and the job is almost impossible to do. It's really Travis at times, impossible to defend yourself, because no police officer wants to be the next YouTube video.
Travis Yates:Yeah, it's really a dangerous time when officers are more concerned about you two than they are about going home at night, right, and we're seeing that time and time again. And what would be your advice to a chief or somebody out there with with that type of authority at an agency that's maybe facing this external pressure? What kind of advice would you give them? Tom?
Thomas Weitzel:You have to stand up, you have to lead. You're a leader for a reason Like when I was in my position, I had deputy chiefs, lieutenants, all right. They managed the department. They managed the day-to-day operations, the police department. My job was to lead and set policy that's really what it was and also to be out there. You know these chiefs that stay in their office all day. Travis, forget about that. Those days are over. If you're still one of those dinosaurs, I don't even know how you're surviving. You need to be out there, you need to communicate and you need to have your facts too. I always like to listen to chiefs or superintendents or executives who could make their case as to why something could happen, but they weren't just talking crap. They had facts behind it, they had experience behind it and they knew what they were talking about. I think that carries a lot of weight.
Travis Yates:Yeah, and you've got to be principle-driven. You've got to have core beliefs that you won't come off of, because if you don't have that, you're going to just blow with the wind right, you'll cave in to whatever's out there, and I think we understand the phenomenon of why these chiefs are acting that way. But they have got to understand they've been put in this place during this time for a reason. There's a huge responsibility and you know leadership is the answer. You can overcome all of what we're talking about whether it's recruiting, retention, low morale, people leaving the profession with leadership, and I think the frustrating part, chief, is they all know it in their head, but we're not seeing it practiced, and so I think it comes down to principles. If you were to talk about your principles, chief, what kept you steady, what kept you strong? What would be the principles that you had that really maintain your leadership focus? What would be the principles?
Thomas Weitzel:that you had that really maintain your leadership focus. You know I'm a person that always wanted to be a police officer. I went to Catholic grade school and I used to run to the windows when I heard a siren go by and the nun would have to pull me back to my seat. So I always wanted that and I had good mentors. So I had. I was always involved in police circles. My uncle was a police and fire commissioner where I grew up, so I was in that.
Thomas Weitzel:You know that field, so to speak, and what I wanted is just to be true to myself and I always wanted to never forget where I came from as I grew up. I know I think a lot of chiefs they do they forget what it's like. Even sometimes I used to tell my field training officers they would get frustrated with new recruits and I was like, hey, you were sitting in that side of the squad eight years ago too. Okay, like you have to, we need patience. We have as training officers. You need to know that one of the best skills you can have is patience. But I always wanted to be true to myself and to the beliefs that I had, which were that policing is, in my opinion, the most honorable profession in America and I truly believe that. It sounds corny, but I absolutely believe it. Or I wouldn't have probably had my kids all go into this profession. You know, my wife is an accountant and she, when all three of my children were sworn in as police officers, you know, I thought she was going to divorce me. So, but so you know, my wife said to me why can't one of them be an accountant? Because that's not what, that's not what they want to do. You know, and I encourage them to go in this profession and I, I mentored them and I talked to them about it all the time and the rights and wrongs of what to do they. You know, there's no such thing as a perfect police officer, but you know, you know what your North star is, you know, and that's, that's the, that's the principle you have to keep. You know.
Thomas Weitzel:I'll tell you a funny story. My son was actually probably a serious story. He when, he when what went down in Uvalde, texas, with that school shooting. Well, my son came to me. My youngest son was a police officer here in Illinois. He said you know, I always saw that the officers waited 73 minutes and that their supervisors at times were telling them don't advance, don't advance. And my son turned to me at the dinner table and said you know, dad, if my supervisor in the community, he were told him don't advance, wait, he goes. I disregard his direct order and I go down there and engage them and he goes. I might get shot, I might get killed, but he goes. I could live with myself and he goes. I don't care what my supervisors did to me. If I heard children being slaughtered and those were his words I'm advancing and I'm like that's the kind of kid I wanted to raise.
Travis Yates:Yeah, that's the kind of leadership we need, regardless of what anybody says, or does you have to do what's right. And, Tom, I think there's so much in the success you've had and I did want to talk to you. I think you alluded to it. But one of the things that bugs me a lot with a lot of these leaders today is they'll say things like well, I have an open door policy, right? Well, I'm thinking to myself well, who's coming to your door? So how did you deal with that? I have a feeling you were very involved throughout your department. You would go to their doors, Talk to our audience about that.
Thomas Weitzel:Yeah, without a doubt. So my office was directly outside of the roll call room to begin with and I would go out on the street. I would answer calls with my officers. I would meet them in the parking lot, I would. I would call them to meet me in a public parking lot. We could talk for them to come to me. You know, patrol officers, detectives, are kind of reluctant to do that, so you really should go to them.
Thomas Weitzel:But I did that with routine because I had a sergeant that I tried to mentor myself after. You know, you probably have worked in organizations where the officers like when we did pick, so we could pick shifts by seniority and sometimes I would take the worst shift just because that sergeant was on the shift. Because I knew this sergeant knew what he was doing, was a leader and you know police officers will follow leaders and I there were. I could have been on day shift, maybe it had a better shift, but this born leader was on midnights and I wanted to work for him and I would pick those shifts because I wanted to be on his shift and that's the type of leadership I wanted to portray when I was chief and I wanted my officers to know that I'll come to you.
Thomas Weitzel:I mean, we would hold a roll call in public before it was even something to do, but I would always go out and see my officers daily and I would come in. So I would work midnight shifts. I would come in and work, for example, christmas Eve. I would come in and work New Year's Eve, just so the officers knew I was there and I wasn't this chief that was sitting in some ivory tower and I'm better than you and I did that with frequency.
Travis Yates:Yeah, without even asking you, were there 13 years. That has to do a lot to do with it, with the trust you built with your officers, and people misunderstand trust, because trust isn't automatic. You have to trust them before they'll even begin to trust you, and that's one of the easiest way to do. It is what you're talking about now, chief. One of the things that has evolved greatly in the last decade is technology and, uh, you, you face this yourself. What type of balance did you have? Because I think there's a danger in technology to where we can over rely on it and we get away from that interpersonal leadership that we all know is effective. Tell us about the balance that you use when it came to the technology your agency used and the interpersonal relationships that you needed.
Thomas Weitzel:Yeah, you know we all got lazy as chiefs and commanders and we started to lead by email and you know officers hate that. There are some things you have to put out by that. But I tried to stay away from that. We were the size department where you could either my deputy chief or my patrol commander, me could go to roll call. I would personally go, especially if there was an important new policy or a new procedure we were putting up. But you know I would always ask them I'm like here, here's the pursuit policy we're going to put out. What do you think Like? Give me some feedback on this and yes, our village attorney wrote it along with you know my input and stuff. But give us practicalities. So I like to do the one-on-one communication. So I like to do the one on one communication.
Thomas Weitzel:I wasn't the chief that you know shied away from that and if they had criticism, they all know what you did, what idiot things you did as patrolman, right. And now you're sitting as a, as a, as a chief, and sometimes you have to dole out some discipline and you know that's to me. That's a harder road to walk sometimes and I had to terminate officers I worked with because their actions were just too egregious worked with. Because their actions were just too egregious Mine were not duty related. Unfortunately, policemen sometimes have some of their worst decisions made in their off duty conduct.
Thomas Weitzel:So, and you know, I wanted to be getting back to that open and transparent Like that was like a such a tagline Right, so I never used it. I just wanted to be the chief from within the department that will listen to you and I'll go out and I'll go to your roll call and I'll come to your meeting. And there's one thing, travis, too I always did, no matter how minor your injury was, because over my 13 years as chief I had officers injured in the line of duty, from broken legs to broken wrists, to serious car accidents. I always came in, I always went to the hospital. He could have a broken wrist and I left my home at 2 o'clock in the morning and I drove to that hospital and made an appearance so that her family and my officers knew I was there. It didn't have to be life-threatening.
Travis Yates:Yeah, yeah, that was always my rule. My commanders would always say, well, we're not going to call you unless it's last rate, and I said, no, no, they're going to the hospital. I want to know because you're right, it doesn't take long to get up, drive to the hospital, see him for five or 10 minutes and make sure there. I mean that means a lot and that's really, really important.
Thomas Weitzel:Yeah, without a doubt, and I think officers build trust and they tell all their officers and it does show you care, you know. So I mean I was out of state in Michigan and one of my officers is involved in a shooting where he shot the offender, didn't kill the offender. At that time I was at a wedding reception in Michigan with my wife. I put my wife in the car, we left that wedding reception, drove all the way back to Riverside probably about a six-hour drive and I went to the scene and then I went from there to where they took the officer for the shooting to the hospital, because that's just what you do. If you're not a chief doing that, then you shouldn't have that position.
Travis Yates:Tom, I wish I could bottle this up. Man, we're going to have to have you back on. Chief Tom Wetzel, I can't thank you enough for being here. Please keep speaking out, because your knowledge is powerful and many, many people need it. Thank you so much for being here.
Thomas Weitzel:Thank you so much for having me. I thoroughly enjoyed it.
Travis Yates:If you've been watching or you've been listening. Thank you for doing that. And just remember lead on and stay courageous.
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