Courageous Leadership with Travis Yates
Courageous Leadership with Dr. Travis Yates Podcast examines what it means to be a Courageous Police Leader. Join us weekly as the concepts of Courageous Leadership are detailed along with interviews with influencers that are committed to leading with courage. You can find out more about Courageous Leadership with Travis Yates at: www.TravisYates.org
Courageous Leadership with Travis Yates
Meeting A Purple Hair Police Reformer
Is it possible to foster genuine reform in law enforcement while managing public perceptions effectively? Join Travis Yates as he recounts a thought-provoking encounter with a woman discussing FEMA's response to a North Carolina hurricane, drawing unexpected parallels to the challenges faced by law enforcement. Learn how this interaction highlights the need for law enforcement leaders to address unsolicited opinions and manage the public narrative, emphasizing evidence-based reforms over reactionary measures. We delve into the complexity of navigating the arrogance of others while advocating for understanding diverse viewpoints and focusing on educating the broader community to implement reforms that genuinely address societal concerns.
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Welcome to Courageous Leadership with Travis Yates, where leaders find the insights, advice and encouragement they need to lead courageously.
Travis Yates:Welcome back to the show. I'm so honored you decided to spend a few minutes with us here today, and if you did not listen to our last episode with Steve Friend, I really encourage you to go back and listen to that. I talk to a lot of individuals around the country on a daily basis and man that really impacted me. It's called the consequences of courage, and I speak to people all the time that have had consequences, have had bad things happen for doing the right thing, but I'm not sure I've ever met somebody so resilient as Steve Friend and what he is now doing. But the story is just awful. It's tragic, it's shocking, but it's encouraging at the same time, and so I think it would help all of us to go listen to that. It's pretty scary to listen to. I don't think anybody wants to think that this actually happens, but I really was encouraged by Steve and we'll be doing some more things with Steve in future episodes and in future events. Stay tuned to that. But what an incredible episode that was. So be sure to check that out.
Travis Yates:And today I'm doing this solo. I had a few thoughts I've been meaning to get out to you, and I had an encounter last week. That was interesting and I think I can tie this back into what law enforcement leadership deals with or what they haven't dealt with well in the last several years. I want to kind of line that story out and get you some things to think about. I've certainly thought about it a few times and I shake my head when I do think about it. But I had a childless cat lady walk up to me and start a conversation Now as a joke, right, if this is, if you're listening to this in the months or years ahead, if you're listening to this in the months or years ahead. We're in the middle of a pretty hotly debated political season where the vice presidential candidate, jd Vance, was given a really hard time for an interview he did years ago where he called people childless cat ladies. I haven't even seen the interview, but boy, they've made a big deal about this comment that he made four years ago, probably well, I know it was done as a joke and ingested some comedy at the time. I think he was on Tucker Carlson when he said it, but boy, they have used that ad nauseum. So I don't say that to offend anybody.
Travis Yates:I have no problem with childless ladies. In fact, a lot of men out there probably prefer childless ladies. I have. Well, I do have a little bit of a problem with cats, but if you have a cat I have no problem with you. And if you don't like that terminology, then I would describe her as a very pale purple hair lady with an Obama sticker on her car. Some of you know who I'm talking about. There seems to be a trend as well, so that's sort of the impression I got. No, she was neither one of those. She didn't have purple hair and she wasn't carrying a cat.
Travis Yates:But I want to discuss what she said to me because it was so fascinating the mindset and I think it's a mindset that law enforcement has faced and we haven't done very well from a leadership standpoint when we face that, out of the blue, this woman walks up to me. I did not invite this conversation, she walked directly up to me and she said this I want you to know, sir, that FEMA is doing an outstanding job in North Carolina. Now, once again, if you're listening to this episode not in real time we're in the middle of a hurricane that hit North Carolina pretty drastically. A lot of people suffering there. It's about a week out from that hurricane hitting from what I'm speaking as I, as I talk. There's a hurricane hit in Florida right now and there's been a lot of controversy Right now and there's been a lot of controversy about FEMA's response to this.
Travis Yates:That is the federal government's response to disasters. It's under the Department of Homeland Security. Mayorkas is over that and they announced this is not me, it's not a conspiracy theory, mayorkas and that department has announced that they're going to give every resident affected $750. And that department has announced that they're going to give every resident affected $750. And that has, of course, offended many people because they have been spending billions on illegal immigrants here in this country to the tune of I've seen reports of, you know, two years of rent being paid, cell phones, you know income, a lot, of, a lot of this stuff, right, and so that has blown out the budget of the Department of Homeland Security, and this is once again, it's not me saying this. Mayorkas has said that FEMA is running out of money and of course, the controversy is well, how are you running out of money for disasters when you're still shelling out all of this money out of the same department they may be different funds, but same department to people that have broke the law in America. So it's a big political talking point.
Travis Yates:I wasn't wearing a T-shirt that indicated that I was interested in this conversation. I was just walking down an aisle of a store and she walks directly up to me and says this to me. So she obviously has an agenda, she obviously has a bias. My question would be is what would you have said? I'm going to tell you what I said in a minute. I'm going to relate this to similar arrogance you see by similar individuals when it comes to law enforcement.
Travis Yates:So this lady says to me this, you know, and of course I immediately say, well, listen. And of course I immediately say, well, listen, I'm going to be honest with you. I don't believe you. I don't really believe anybody else, but who I will believe are the residents of North Carolina, and in due time we will know the actual truth, because people that are living in North Carolina will tell us. Which then she pivoted and said, well, yeah, that's absolutely right. Which then she pivoted and said, well, yeah, that's absolutely right. We've now have Starlink, that people are now able to communicate out of North Carolina, and we're getting some of these stories. I said, well, that's good. And then she asked me this Now I'm painting this picture because I did not instigate any of this.
Travis Yates:She started steering this political conversation to me. Which many of you have met these individuals? Maybe you'll meet them at Thanksgiving dinner, maybe they're your family, where they just are almost picking a fight, right? The very folks that sometimes preach inclusivity are not really inclusive at all. They're only inclusive if you agree with everything they say at all. They're only inclusive if you agree with everything they say.
Travis Yates:And she's looking, no question, to poke a bear. Now, she doesn't know my political affiliation, she doesn't know my belief system. She probably brought some biases into that. Like I kind of call her a childless cat lady. That's kind of my bias, right. So she's probably looking at me, this six foot three, 245 pound white guy with a burly haircut, and thinks, yeah, this is a guy I need to convince on my side, which is really weird, right, really odd that she would do this. But I enjoy talking to people. I enjoy having conversations with people of all kinds. It's very interesting to me.
Travis Yates:And so she starts talking and bragging about Starlink. They're able to now communicate. And then she asked me well, how does Starlink operate? Which I didn't necessarily know for a fact, but I looked into it from my home at one point. It's actually a little more expensive than the Internet I use. Now I said, well, you know, I don't actually know, but I'm pretty sure it's satellite based. That's why they're able to deploy them in a disaster zone, because when your telephone poles are knocked out or your underlying power lines are out or your power's out, it's coming from space. So it's satellite based and that's why it's able to operate.
Travis Yates:And then she says, offering this information to me yeah, that Elon Musk, he's a problem. I thought to myself what is going on here? Right, this is what's going on. And I said well, what do you mean by that? I mean Elon Musk has provided these starlings. His technology has enabled this. In fact, he's so successful. From what I understand, about 90% of the satellites going in space come from his company and the federal government contracts out with him because he's very good at what he does. So what do you mean by that? And then she says this, and it's very telling. She says, well, he's messed up, he's opened his mouth. I don't think the government is going to be participating with him anymore. Pretty wild right Now. I don't think she knows any of this, right, but it's this weird mentality, this mind virus that some people have. And what's she talking about? She's talking about the Elon Musk has endorsed Donald Trump for president and he has spoken very negatively about the other side of the political equation.
Travis Yates:Much where the conversation ended I wasn't going to get in some debate, I just sort of said, yeah, yeah, I just sort of shook my head at her, you know, and was sort of looking away out of this conversation, but it got me to thinking afterwards, because that doesn't happen to me every day, I don't think it happens to you, but it got me to thinking about when this happens to law enforcement, because, yeah, you could replace Starlink and North Carolina and FEMA with what you do. How many people have had this arrogance towards law enforcement, where they know best? It doesn't matter if they haven't been in law enforcement, it doesn't matter if they don't have the experience that you have. They know best, they know what your problems are and they know how to fix it. It's an arrogance, right, and that's what she was displaying. She was displaying this arrogant attitude, how she knows this and she has the answers. And even though she didn't accuse me of having the opposite opinion. I think she was coming at me like she thought I was thinking differently, even though I didn't let on. I really had fun having a discussion with her and not letting her know one way or the other. But law enforcement's been dealing with this for some time.
Travis Yates:Leaders have Think of all of the reforms, all of the demands, all of the things that these arrogant people and I say people in general terms. It could be mayors, it could be politicians, it could be lawyers, it could be activists, it could be community citizens, it could be PERF, it could be police. It could be lawyers, it could be activists, it could be community citizens, it could be perf, it could be police. People that are so arrogant to think you are wrong. How have we typically addressed that? I'm going to tell you how I've addressed that in the past and it has been horribly gone, horribly wrong.
Travis Yates:I thought people think logically, like I do, just like this lady. I could have sat there and drawn up the, showing her the articles or showing her the testimonies from my, from my friends in north carolina that told me hey, we're four days in, we haven't seen fema. I could, I could have showed her all these eyewitness testimonies. I could have showed her the evidence, I could have showed her the news articles. Nothing was going to change her mind, nothing.
Travis Yates:But I would do this in law enforcement. I would say well, listen, I don't think you're right here. Here's the study from Roland Fryer, and here's this and here's the data. And it only made things worse because then, instead of arguing, they knew they couldn't argue with me on the facts. They would just then say, well, you must be a racist then, because you don't agree with me. Yeah, who knows? Right, that's where they would quickly go to, because that tends to scare people off. And of course, that doesn't scare me off, because I know who I am. My God knows who I am and I don't care what name you call me. Truth is truth, but I think in a sense we've been sort of crippled by not knowing how to deal with this. And here's I don't know if I know all the answers, but I know this arguing will not help.
Travis Yates:You have to understand the vast majority of people in this country. Do not believe this way. She is an anomaly, she is unique. Most people aren't like this. You may have a core 10 or 15% of the people that are these crazy purple hair type people right, not necessarily purple hair, but that kind of arrogance because that is what that is is complete and utter arrogance that they know all and you don't.
Travis Yates:I don't think arguing with them does a bit of good, but I think you have to direct your attention to the rest of the people, because somebody may not be as informed as you are, but their arrogance or their insuination of the information may attract other people to their side. So I think you have to double down on the education information to the general citizen. So when this is because these folks can be very loud and very bold. She was extremely odd how vocal and animated and passionate she was about FEMA in North Carolina, because obviously her worldview had been challenged by what was in the news at the time, which was it was they were doing a horrible job, right, and some of the news outlets, and so she's become very boisterous, and so I don't think it does any good to attack the person or attack the information. But you have to pin your sights on the rest of the population, the rest of your community, and you have to do it in a professional manner, right? You don't want to bow down to the way these folks act, whoever they may be, and I think we really, because we think critically, we think we can attack an insane person with critical, logical information and that just can't happen.
Travis Yates:If you're in my seminars, I break down some of the research that about 10% of the population not only doesn't ever believe that use of force is correct in law enforcement, they don't even think law enforcement should be able to use use of force. They think law enforcement should just be able to die at the hands of a bad guy. They should never be permitted to use force. That's 10% of the population. Now, that's a real study. I can break that out and explain it to you. I won't today. So that's at least 10% of the population are completely insane, because if you believe that law enforcement would never have to use force ever, you're an insane person, right. And so on top of the 10%, you probably have 10 or 15% that are borderline that, so it's a quarter of the country.
Travis Yates:When I look at some of the political polling, I kind of make sense, right? When 25% of the public thinks the economy is great. Well, who are these people right? Do you ever go to the grocery store. Do you ever try to buy a car or get a home loan? I mean? So it's about a quarter of the country that is completely off their rocker. That's their worldview. Nothing's going to change it. That's who you're dealing with.
Travis Yates:When you talk to these folks that want to defund you, reform, you do all these things. Now we've said this time and time again we are for police reform, but not just haphazard reform to say we're being reformed, evidence-based reform, not just let's throw everything on the wall here with cashless bail and all of this and all of that and let's just see what happens. That is not what we're talking about, because you'll notice that all these reforms in recent years, regardless of what it may be changing the use of force, taking away your tools, all of this stuff Police shootings have not been reduced one bit. In fact, they've increased in many jurisdictions because the crime has increased, because the use of force in law enforcement is correlated with violent crime in jurisdictions, and so at some point we're going to have to have a different tact, and that's not just to agree to agree. So at some point we're going to have to have a different tact, and that's not just to agree to agree, we're going to have to literally ignore these individuals and then turn our attention to the public and explain why we do it and when we do it. That's really where the attention needs to go. You're wasting your time arguing with crazy people. You just are Right people. You just are right. But that's what we see time and time again, because these crazy people are very loud and boisterous and there's your community meetings and they're calling your politicians and they're in the media. I know it is very enticing that you know you're right and you know they're wrong and you want to try to prove that. Proving it does you no good. It just doesn't. You need to be very clear and concise and communicate in a forward fashion to your community about why you're doing it, when you're going to do it and what the impact you anticipate will be.
Travis Yates:There's several departments that have now introduced what's called a policing plan. I really love this idea. They're big over in Europe. They're not very popular in America. I don't understand why, and I'll put in the show notes a link to a few of them, but it's essentially a business plan for a law enforcement agency. They will put out a document and they'll review it every year and revise it, but it explains why they do what they do. You know, hey, we have automatic license readers. Here's why we do that.
Travis Yates:You know, we proactively deploy officers where crime is, despite the population. Here's why we do that. The demographic data on our arrest won't always be along the census lines. Here is why that is. We're protecting victims of crime, and those victims of crime are a certain demographic. So when we're in those areas because crime is generally interracial, meaning one race versus the same race sometimes you won't see a perfect data set when it comes to population. So what are they doing there? They're literally getting left of Bain, left of the controversy. They're trying to explain why they do it before somebody raises a concern.
Travis Yates:And I think it's a very, very good idea to have that document. But I very seldom have seen it. But I think we have to think about it differently. But I very seldom have seen it. But I think we have to think about it differently. You're not going to be able to argue your way out of people that believe this, that have the arrogance to think they have all the answers. I don't have all the answers, but I would put my education, training and experience against someone like that any day of the week, right? So why do they tend to win so much and law enforcement changes for them, when inside law enforcement, those are the experts that know what the reform should be. Those are the experts that know best practices, but we listen to outside entities so much, and I think we have to have a different approach.
Travis Yates:Now, listen, I wrote an entire book around this premise, called the Courageous Police Leader. You can get it on Amazon. It's been around for five years. I'm not sure how many people are listening to it or reading it, but I saw this for years. That was just decimating us, and it, of course, came to a head in 2020 when the book came out with defund police and all these crazy silly things, and you saw what happened after that. Right, we saw violent crime spike to the largest has been from one year to the next in our history, since the FBI has been doing the data, and the only reason they've been able to get the crime rates come down is the FBI literally quit reporting the data from about half the police departments. You know in a political year they're using. A crime is actually down under this presidency. Yeah, because your FBI quit reporting the data. That's really odd, but you know. They know it's a lie, of course, but they're using that as political fodder, and so we have yet to recover from that, from listening to crazy people and being scared of this, and so this is not going to stop.
Travis Yates:There's an element of people that just believe they're right, no matter what, and they are so arrogant about it they're going to interject themselves in what you do. So as leaders, we need to really cognitively think what can we do today to prevent this in the future? That's what our Left of Bane course is all about. We have an entire course built on this. Some of the things you can do rely heavily on data to avoid having to do some of these silly things because you aren't prepared. So check that out.
Travis Yates:Go to travisyeatorg. We want to help you with that. We're going to be doing some more information on this, whether it's documents or some forms that can help you. I have one form already out. I'll send it to you if you reach out that. If you go to a community meeting, it's sort of a rule form, right, everybody agrees on the rules before we have this dialogue, and it's really crazy things like. We're going to be honest, right, we're going to be honest and tell the truth. I mean, yeah, real crazy things that you have to set these boundaries for, but you've got to set those because if not, things are going to go very, very haywire, because next time it won't be some crazy lady that walks up to you and talks about Elon Musk, it's going to be somebody that's trying to change the inner workings of your police department. Thanks for listening. I look forward to talking to you next time. And just remember, lead on and stay courageous.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening to Courageous Leadership with Travis Yates. We invite you to join other courageous leaders at www. travisyates. org.
