Courageous Leadership with Travis Yates
Courageous Leadership with Dr. Travis Yates Podcast examines what it means to be a Courageous Police Leader. Join us weekly as the concepts of Courageous Leadership are detailed along with interviews with influencers that are committed to leading with courage. You can find out more about Courageous Leadership with Travis Yates at: www.TravisYates.org
Courageous Leadership with Travis Yates
The 99% Outlaw with Dick Odom
Dick Odom's journey from the brink of despair to becoming a beacon of hope is nothing short of miraculous. As a seasoned former law enforcement officer and now the director of operations at Thin Blue Connect, Dick graces our show with his harrowing yet inspiring story. He shares the pivotal moments that nearly broke him, his encounter with personal demons leading to a suicide attempt, and the unwavering strength that spurred his recovery. His narrative isn't just his own—it's a lifeline for anyone in the force grappling with the pressures of the badge.
Leadership in law enforcement can be a double-edged sword; it can either foster a culture of support or breed a toxic environment. Together with Dick, we peel back the layers of what true leadership entails, drawing from my personal experiences detailed in "The Oath Breaker." We dissect the fallout caused by indifference and neglect at the hands of those in command. Through candid discussions, we underscore the transformative power of empathy in leadership roles and how it can set the tone for an entire department to thrive or flounder.
As we wrap up our dialogue, we emphasize the enduring value of compassionate leadership and how it can revolutionize law enforcement agencies. We spotlight the role of internal affairs in maintaining a healthy organizational culture, the significance of peer accountability, and the introduction of Thin Blue Connect as a vital resource for officers needing support.
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It starts out in camaraderie and you believe you have the ability to de-stress in that environment because you're surrounded by people that you work with. Right, you're surrounded by the thin blue line. It starts out as that and then, before you know it, the alcohol begins to overpower people. The adultery runs rampant through that kind of life. They're compromising you morally and ethically, and so it starts out in all good fun, just as I did. But within a five-year period I went from a guy that was once in my previous agency, the deputy for the year to getting arrested in my mugshot being on news media right.
Intro/Outro:Welcome to Courageous Leadership with Travis Yates, where leaders find the insights, advice and encouragement they need to lead courageously.
Travis Yates:Welcome back to the show. I'm so honored you've decided to spend your time with us today and I am thrilled about today's guest and you will be as well. On today's show is Dick Odom. Dick has over 17 years of dedicated service in law enforcement and he's witnessed firsthand the challenges, sacrifices and triumphs of wearing the badge. His journey has ignited his passion to give back to the law enforcement community and he's currently the director of operations at Thin Blue Connect. He's the author of a two-book series called Living Inside the Thin Blue Line. Those book titles include the Oathbreaker and his most recent book, the 99% Outlaw. They are both must-reads. Dick Odom, how are you doing, sir?
Dick Odom:I'm doing outstanding. How are you today, Travis?
Travis Yates:Well, man, it's going great and I'm excited to have you here on the show and obviously your story could take up hours and hours of what we could talk about, and obviously it won't be the first time you're on the show, but I kind of just wanted to get a sense of you know, you're doing great things in the profession today. Obviously, you're writing and the books are coming out and you're planning seminars and trainings and you have this connection with all these high-level trainers. But how did you get there, man? You just didn't wake up and start doing that. What was the journey in your life that has you sitting there right now doing this great work?
Dick Odom:Wow, you're right, that is a long question. The answer is long, so I left law enforcement in 06 after what everybody believed to be a DUI, but it was a suicide attempt.
Dick Odom:And for me, travis, I thought you know we have that old attitude. I began police work in 1989, and so we know that during that time, stoic was the attitude right, keep your mouth shut and keep working. So I did that and I went on and built a multimillion dollar business and I ended up losing it, and that was about seven years ago. I lost it in a hostile purchase, which can happen. Right.
Dick Odom:A year ago my life really changed. I got this overwhelming urge to start writing a book and talking about my career and my childhood, which was really strange, because that's just not something I thought I'd ever do. But I still believe that it was something God sent to me, right, that this is something you're going to do. Other people need to hear this. Well, as I was doing that, I started looking around. I was reaching out to people like my old boss, andy Hughes. You know, andy, he's a great guy. Andy's been very helpful to me. But during that process it was just like I have some business acumen, I have these other skills and I want to help support people that have these messages.
Dick Odom:You know I mean your message Jeff Dawkins, john Kelly, olivia Johnson, clee Tillman we've got all these wonderful people and I want to support that right. We want to arrange, you know, training and things like that and get that message out there. The last year has been incredibly introspective for me and changed my life a lot. We got the first two books published. I'm actually working on the last book in that series. That book's titled Don't Be a Dick and it's got several authors and it's going to be full of tangible solutions. But the road to get here it wasn't easy. It was tough. You know it was a fight every day in your mind. But I want everybody to listen. You know you can do it. You don't have to lay there and stop breathing, right, we don't need to forget the power of breath.
Travis Yates:Well, I would assume, dick, that there was a time in your life when you never thought you would get here right. Your latest book, a 99% Outlaw, is a pretty incredible journey of that motorcycle culture that you were involved in, and, of course, you mentioned a suicide attempt. So what do you think? Obviously, you've got incredible resilience. Resilience and you've already talked about in law enforcement. We didn't train that, we didn't talk about that. It was keep your mouth shut and, and you know, tough it out and put your boots on every day and keep going. What do you think it was about you that that led you to overcome so much of that?
Dick Odom:I mean, I say frustration, but you know, at the end of the day, travis, the will to be a part of humanity is important to me, right, and I think that we talk about everybody. You know, people go, they, they, they garner and gather all this wisdom, but the most important thing is how can we learn if we don't impart it? Right, what good is a doctor that has all this knowledge but never teaches anybody? And so I think that, through my struggles and and all my challenges uh, you know, it's like hey, you don't have to live this way and for everybody to stand around and look at you and say suck it up, buttercup. Um, I'd like to like to tell you shut your mouth, right?
Travis Yates:They've never had to suck it up, if they're saying that right.
Dick Odom:That's exactly right. Um, I just saw this the other day on a guy's post that this, you know it's, it's a, that's a phrase that can destroy you, and so to drive yourself to, to open up, and I mean completely and honestly when I write, I write from my heart. If it hurts, it hurts. If it's happy, it's happy. I'm not going to cover the words for you because you didn't like it.
Dick Odom:You know I may not use your name, but I think in having people understand that accountability on not just you everybody talks about accountability and they say well, you have to take accountability for yourself, and I agree with that wholeheartedly and I believe that I do that. But the ability to stand up when you get knocked down is the mark of a good Christian. I think I don't know how else to say that right.
Travis Yates:No, I mean, I think your story is pretty inspiring, dick, and people that haven't read your books don't know what I'm talking about. So you have to get a hold of Dick's books Obviously Amazon and all the major booksellers you can get those. Just type in Dick Odom's name and they'll pop right up. I did that earlier. But what has really interested me is this culture you were involved in while you were in law enforcement and the warning shot that you're telling all other law enforcement about that motorcycle culture. Can you just briefly talk about that and sort of the warnings you have for others in your writings?
Dick Odom:So now we're popping open the can of worms, right. Let's let them squirm, let's let them squirm man, let's get after it because, listen.
Travis Yates:One thing about our audience needs to know about dick odom is nothing's a secret. You put it all on paper, so you're on hiding anything and I have a lot of respect for that's why you're here talking to me, and I think we can all learn from that.
Dick Odom:That's the power in you doing that, dick well, I I certainly appreciate that and I can tell this. My writing has ruffled a lot of feathers, but I hope that those feathers, while they ruffle, that those people have the foresight to look in and learn the motorcycle, that culture of law enforcement, motorcycle clubs, travis it's really a line you know when you're living in that world and you're trying to be a cop and what I call a 99 percent outlaw and the definition of that is in my book it's a dangerous life. I mean, I got into so many situations that I should not have been in and I mean, honestly, they're just brawls and this was right.
Dick Odom:So I got out of that environment in 2006. But I continue to see this activity daily. I mean, just the other day there was a deputy out in California arrested. Well, this guy's running around with a one percent outlaw club, right, I mean, come on. So for me, the shenanigans that I went through that were dangerous to me and the people around me. They're just getting worse and I think it's society degrades. Travis, you know, I say this in my book. People are as our society degrades. People are going to lump together. And what do we call lumps together of people? We call them gangs, clubs, societies. It's only going to worsen.
Dick Odom:But that motorcycle life, it's very alluring, right. I mean it just draws you in because you there is, you feel what you think is a sense of freedom. But it's not. It's very false, but there's. There can be not a lot of good in there for that if you're living that 99 outlaw life. Now, that being said, there are still a lot of clubs out there that do very good work.
Dick Odom:But I will say this loudly as I was researching the last book, I emailed and tried to contact every the big five, one percent outlaw motorcycle club, right, Hells Angels, outlaws, bogos, banditos all those guys Received no response from them whatsoever. It was all those guys received no response from them whatsoever. And I expected that. Now let me give you the surprise. I did the same thing with law enforcement motorcycle clubs and received no response, with exception of one.
Dick Odom:And they came out. They had a really good idea and I'm not going to plug them for it at all and then they turn and they said, listen, we're not going to, we don't want to be a part of that it at all. And then they turn around they said, listen, we're not going to, we don't want to be a part of that book at all. And I kind of laughed and I said, well, listen, you people are acting the same way as these outlaw motorcycle clubs and I want you to know that. So until they start learning that their secrecy I mean it's not, it's not a secret, right? I mean it's just not that they have to get a hold of it, it's not a life that I would recommend anybody living in it leads us into. I've got one big secret left in my life Travis, and it's probably the worst one that I could have held on to and it's going to be in my last book.
Travis Yates:Don't Be a Dick. You don't want to reveal that here, do you, dick? You want to?
Dick Odom:hold it out for the book. Huh, yeah, yeah, it's going to be in the last book, right? If you, if you read my books, the first one or the second, one other than this secret dress, what you said well, there's nothing about my life that you wouldn't know.
Travis Yates:Well, what do you think the appeal is? Is it a? Is it a? Is it a de-stress mechanism? Is it that fine line between good and evil? Is it the community aspect? Is it all of the above? What do you think the draw is for law enforcement those wearing the badge to uphold, uphold the laws and to be with the the gap between good and evil and law abiders and crime. What do you think the draw is for these motorcycle clubs?
Dick Odom:for them to be attracted to it it starts out in in uh, camaraderie and the in the. You believe you have the ability to de-stress in that environment because you're surrounded by people that you work with right, you're surrounded by the thin blue line, which I have. No, I mean. Mean, if you look at the society today, there's not a lot left there to brag about. It starts out as that and then, before you know it, the alcohol begins to overpower people, the adultery runs rampant through that kind of life and these are all things that are. You know, they're compromising you morally and ethically, and so it starts out in all good fun, just as I did. But within a five-year period, I went from a guy that was once in my previous agency, the deputy for the year, to getting arrested in my mugshot being on news media. Right Now I'll say this I used every excuse in my arsenal to justify what I was doing, I think because I wasn't taking personal accountability.
Travis Yates:Well, let me ask you this, dick While you were going through this and you were in law enforcement and you were living this sort of other life, what role did leaders play?
Travis Yates:I mean, this is a leadership podcast and we often talk about the failure of leadership and the good, but what role did leaders in your organization play during this time period? Because surely they noticed it right before it got to the end. We always talk about the end oh, I got arrested. Oh, I tried to commit suicide. Oh, I committed a crime, I did this, I did that. But there's a lot of time between the beginning of that to the end of that and we don't often talk about the middle. The middle part's where leadership comes in.
Dick Odom:What role did they play in that middle part good or bad? So in in my agency at that time, travis, there was a guy that was the chief of police was probably the most toxic leader you could have been around. Oh, I heard about that guy.
Travis Yates:Me and andy have had conversations about that guy. I don't know the guy's name, but me and andy have had a lot, a lot of conversations about this guy. Go ahead.
Dick Odom:Yeah, the guy was just. You know, in my first book, the oath breaker, I thought I I talk about three type of people that are supervisory positions.
Dick Odom:You have a leader, a true leader, right, these are people like you and Andy Hughes, john Kelly, right, they show compassion to their people. Um, and then you have a supervisor. The supervisor is there to punch the card, that's it. He really doesn't care if Travis is beat or hurt. He's going to do his job and he's going to move on. And then there's the third one. He's what I call a dilettante. These are the worst of the worst. They got in their positions usually by false resumes or generally they've attached themselves to a shooting star that has really worked well and worked hard. But this particular man, he was that way. His idea was to come in and tear apart an agency that had nothing wrong with it. I mean, there was 170 hardworking officers there. Of course, there was a problem here and there. I went to my agency, my particular lieutenant, and they had transferred me to a patrol division. But anyways, I said, hey, I need help, and we talked about five minutes and when I left, that room.
Dick Odom:I left because he, because he said Odom, what in the hell do you want me to do now? I just stood in front of this man and said I have a problem with alcohol, I've got infidelity issues and I need to be at home during the day or work during the day, right? Well, the response was what in the hell do you want me to do? I said, lieutenant, I don't need you to do anything. I turned and walked out. Well, rather than help than help me, he sent my name to Internal Affairs and now, before I know it, there's some lieutenant following me around, like I didn't see him. I mean, for the love of God, as a child, I was hypervigilant because of my upbringing. So by the time I became a cop, every bad person around me.
Dick Odom:I saw him right away, right? So this guy trying to sneak around and follow me was kind of funny, but to go from a cop now. I was a dedicated officer. I had my problems. I did a lot of work, though I was very hardworking To go from going in there and saying I need help to somebody from internal affairs following you?
Intro/Outro:Who do you?
Dick Odom:think that came from. Well, that was an internal affairs investigation. I'm fairly certain the chief of police knew about that. I know he did. So the guy was just he came in, he tore the department apart and rather than come in and say we see, you need help, it was complete opposite reaction. The leadership there was very poor on the upper echelon the people that really could have benefited in those positions they were in lower supervisory positions.
Dick Odom:But he's just a man. That he's a dilettante is what I refer to that person I have travesties. Well, let me just say this.
Travis Yates:What you just described is why I do what I do. I know it's why you do what you do. This is everything folks. I mean. What Dick just described is, first off, the resilience it took to walk into that office and to admit to that and basically there's no bigger scream for help right there. And then to get that response. Leadership is everything. I don't care what your crime rate is, I don't care what your is everything. I don't care what your crime rate is, I don't care what your benefits are, I don't care what your stupid hiring bonuses are.
Travis Yates:If you don't have leaders within that organization, it will be destroyed. I've seen this firsthand. I hear stories daily around the country of this happening. One leader at the top can change it all, can ruin it all, but then again, one leader at the top can make everything better. And I want to also give our audience one more little lesson.
Travis Yates:And when you talked about that toxic leader, about how he would attach himself to a rising star, it screams of the signs of narcissism and we have a lot of narcissism within leadership ranks and I didn't really know a lot about narcissism until I got bit by narcissism. And narcissism is actually a mental disorder. It's actually diagnosed as that but it's impossible to cure, because the whole idea of narcissism is they don't know they're narcissists, right, and so that's a. I don't know if this guy was that, but you described enough to me to tell me that's probably the case, because that's one of the big signs they do is they will use you until they can't use you anymore. Then they destroy you, right and that's, and they'll typically do what you just described and um and uh.
Travis Yates:You know that's an incredible story, but and I'm so, I mean I know it's tough to talk about, but I'm so happy you talked about it because this is I want our audience to know this. We have people listen to art and law enforcement. This is I want our audience to know this. We have people that listen to art and law enforcement. This is, throughout the profession, what you just described. And that's why, when John Kelly told me the definition of leadership is caring, it was so impactful I actually started including that in my presentation, with some research behind it, because that really is it, and all you needed was someone to care. And, by the way, dick, your whole life may have drastically changed for the better if a leader just led. Would it have not?
Dick Odom:yeah, I, I believe it would. I mean at that time, um, it would have traversed, there's no doubt if somebody would have came to me and and really showed some compassion and at that time that particular he like separated every good part of that agency and tore it apart. And so you know if I would have been, say, the last year I was in law enforcement there was a particular man, a good friend of yours and I's. He wasn't my boss anymore and I said this in one of my books I wished he had man because I think he grabbed me up by the scruff of my collar and I'm talking about Andy Hughes.
Dick Odom:He grabbed me up and said come on here right, but like this chief, the first thing he did he came in and he just destroyed the train division.
Intro/Outro:That we're all in and separated like okay, whatever.
Dick Odom:But to have a leader that was like Andy at that time around me would have been great. But you know Andy was going through his problems with that guy too. I mean, that guy is just a lunatic.
Dick Odom:I think, but to have somebody that would come in and said I got you. It would have meant the world, you know, just like. Don't worry about this, we got you, we're going to take care of you. But for me, travis, when I talk about accountability, I'm going to keep talking about it forever. Don't come to me and tell me you're my friend and then not be willing to come up to me and say, dude, you're drinking too much, you're not my friend.
Travis Yates:Yeah yeah.
Travis Yates:There's so much power in that, dick, there really is, and I think we can all learn that lesson. And what you're talking about with them, taking straight to internal affairs, is what we're seeing across the country. It's the art of self-preservation oh, I don't want to help, I don't want to care, it may put me in jeopardy. So the easy thing to do, the cowardly thing to do, is just launch an investigation which is literally the exact opposite of what a leader is. Right, there's obviously times to launch investigations, but when a guy comes in pleading for help, obviously that's not a time. It's a time to help. You literally wrote a script for him to do and, pretty and like I said, I wouldn't be harping on if it was just this person.
Travis Yates:But we see this throughout law enforcement. I personally saw the destruction of what one leader can do in an agency myself and how quickly it can happen, and that divide and conquer is real. If you want to see what's going wrong in the country, see how they're dividing Americans. Right, they're labeling Americans, whether it's through race or politics. Well, in organizations, these toxic leaders do the exact same thing, and you've mentioned that a couple of times where he started to divide people, and it's a very quick, quick way to destroy an organization and you know, I'm just amazed that that you cause. You could have gone down some dark, dark paths for many, many years after that, but you have come out of that doing just some incredible things, dick. I mean, let's talk about a thin blue connect, let's talk about why you decided to do that and kind of what you're doing with that incredible organization.
Dick Odom:And obviously tell them the website, where to find it and things like that. Oh, thinblueconnectcom, the platform. I mean what it is, it's my passion. My book series is something I believe I was made to write. The first two books were for me. The last book is full of tangible solutions. There's several authors in it, authors together that agencies could really depend on that had been vetted in some sense right, other than just here's Joe Bob's resume and let's bring him in and to help these people continue their careers to get their messages out right.
Dick Odom:So, as we talk about that kind of stuff, I'll say this when I was researching, I spoke to a psychologist that made a comment to me that cops don't have a problem killing people. Well, I got pretty upset. To be honest with you, I really disagreed with it and I realized right then that that was a person that didn't even be around me, and so that's kind of where Thin Blue Connect started, right. And then you pay attention to it, right. There's just so many people have great messages, right. I mean like Dr Olivia Johnson, her fatal 10, your courageous leadership. John Kelly sometimes hero needs help. Andy Hughes, bear the sword, I mean, the list goes on and on, but I want people to hear them and I want to help them do that, right.
Dick Odom:That's what Sand Blue Connects about. So we have it's an honor society, it's invitation only right, it's based on that person's work, what they're doing and who they're contacting, those types of things. Those are the things that are important to me to make sure that we're getting messages to first responders that are valid and not necessarily hurting people. I guess is what I'm trying to say. So we have a big conference we're working on next year and I mean this conference is going through. You know the way that it's being perceived and built is it's going to revolutionize the way people train, treat and lead. That's important. So that's what Thin Blue Connects about.
Dick Odom:Travis is finding people that are they have valuable messages and helping them get those messages out.
Travis Yates:No, I think it's incredible, dick, and it hasn't been done right. I mean, I think everybody listening here in law enforcement, even in the business world, you're used to going to a conference and they'll have like a signature speaker and then what I would describe it oftentimes is a bunch of feelers right, you know, they're trying to watch the budget. They're just bringing that signature speaker in to bring the audience and then sometimes the other instructors are hit or miss. We kind of get that. But you really are vetting these instructors at a high level and people need to know that if they go to a thin blue connect conference man, they're going to be charged to the max. I mean it's going to be every single minute of that conference they're going to be fired up because those speakers you talked about, whether it's Andy Hughes or John Kelly or even Tom Rizzo, I mean these guys are they're A pluses. Right, they're A pluses, they're the best of the best.
Travis Yates:But you're right, they oftentimes aren't known by the masses because you know there's just a lot of folks out there doing it and there's a lot of listen there doing it and there's a lot of listen. I don't want to be too negative but you know, in the law enforcement training world there's a lot of frauds. We know that sometimes marketing there's sometimes marketing overtakes the message, or sometimes the message is too politically correct, or or we're really worried about saying certain things or these, this or that. And you have done an incredible job of sort of attaching all these folks together and I'm an honor to be a part of it and I just can't encourage people enough to hit that website and check that out. I know you've got the first training coming up this summer, but if they want to bring that to their community, I'm sure you'd be open to that as well, right?
Dick Odom:Absolutely. You go to www. thinblueconnect. com. Of course. You can always email me, richard (at) thinblueconnect. com.
Dick Odom:One of the things that we do on the platform, travis, is, let's say, they go in there and they're interested. They look at your profile and they're interested in speaking to Travis Yates. You don't have to email me. You can find Travis's email right there on his profile page, right? But in an effort to facilitate those things, I'm happy for you to email me and I can coordinate those. And whether it be you or you know, tom Rizzo or whoever it might be, you know I can coordinate getting seminars and conferences and things like that set up for them and that's part of my goal right, to get that out there and make sure that we're hearing all those people. But I don't think that this type of work has been done For an agency to have the ability to go to a platform right now there are 18 members in Thin Blue Connect For them to be able to go to there and look and say that this presenter speaks on this subject. That's part of helping facilitate agencies find that need of training.
Travis Yates:Yeah, you've done incredible work, Dick, and obviously you're just getting started and, as we come to a close here, I just want you to give you the last word here on the leaders that are listening to this. Everyone's a leader, but what advice would you give them? Because we all know the state of law enforcement today, we all know the state of training. You're a part of making all of that better. What words of advice would you give those leaders that are listening to this?
Dick Odom:Compassion is key. These days we have too many people getting into the law enforcement that really have nefarious motivations, but I mean the leaders have to keep their eyes open for that. But at the end, having compassion and realizing that Travis sometimes even leaders need to be led. You know, just because you're the chief doesn't mean you got every answer. You know, just because you're the chief doesn't mean you got every answer. All right. So to be compassionate and to be open to your whether it be subordinates or peers, I think can make a big difference. You know, paying attention to, to your cops is very important. One night I was, I remember, doing a roadblock. We were running a driver's license check and so I was going on my feet and they were just in complete pain every step I took, I mean, I was literally in tears and one of my other dog handlers came over to me and he said, hey, what's going on?
Dick Odom:I was like, oh, nothing, I was particularly quiet. You know me, I tend to talk a lot, um, and he said finally he got out. I used to do my feet feel like they're on fire and they were very painful. There's this one guy there and he's passed away now. He's named Buren Wombles. Some people didn't like him. I really don't care. The man was an outstanding leader for me. Within 10 minutes, buren came over to me and he said hey, odom, go home. I said, excuse, you what he said.
Dick Odom:Go home. I've been seeing you limp around here for 10 minutes with your dog and it's that kind of stuff. It's the little stuff, travis, if the leaders can pay. That man has no idea how much respect he garnered for me that night by realizing the physical pain, even though I was willing to work through it. Tons of respect, right. It was that one little instance that I'll always remember that man for right. So those are the things I think leaders need to get back to. They're so worried about what you said a while ago passing the buck so they don't get in trouble. I mean, compassion would be very helpful these days. You know being open-minded.
Travis Yates:Yeah, I think you nailed that we have to get the little things right, because if you get the little things right, you tend to get the big things right. We go over that in our seminars routinely and there's a lot of wisdom in that. Dick Odom, thin Blue Connect. I'm so thankful for what you're doing for our profession. It's a prime example that you may be retired or resigned from an agency but you can still serve in whatever capacity and the gifts God gave you, and I can't thank you enough for doing that. You are impacting thousands of lives. Thanks for being on the show.
Dick Odom:Well, thank you, and I appreciate being here. It's been a great joy.
Travis Yates:And, if you're listening, thank you for spending time with us. And just remember, lead on and stay courageous.
Intro/Outro:Thank you for listening to Courageous Leadership with Travis Yates. We invite you to join other courageous leaders at www. travisyates. org.
